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Original poster

Secretary at work won’t do her job

42 replies

zsymina · 06/12/2023 12:37

Can anyone explain/help me work around this?

I’m a lawyer and have a secretary. She works for me and a few other lawyers in the team. I also have a trainee sitting with me.

Secretary is fab to me and other lawyers. But refuses to do work for the trainees. Unless I specifically email her she won’t help when my trainee asks for help with something like printing or filing expenses. Whilst she doesn’t report directly to the trainee, it is still in her job description to help out the team where required.

Do you think it’s because she is a similar age to the trainee? or jealousy?

OP posts:

kirinm · 06/12/2023 12:40

I know some secretaries really only respond to seniority (I'm also a lawyer) so I'd pick it up with him / her and make sure she / he understands that she / he should be doing the trainees work.

Unless it is really work the trainee should be doing.

HappyHamsters · 06/12/2023 12:44

She should help them, if it's their job to do this then she could at least offer help and train them. She might just think they are being lazy and should do it themselves or may just be snooty.

SirChenjins · 06/12/2023 12:45

It really doesn’t matter why she’s not doing it - the fact is she isn’t doing her job and that needs to be addressed. Presumably she’s aware that the trainees are included in her remit? An informal chat should hopefully rectify things, but if not then it will have to be dealt with more formally.

NonanteNeuf · 06/12/2023 12:45

Could it be jealousy?

Perhaps she wants what they have?

easylikeasundaymorn · 06/12/2023 12:46

It doesn't matter what the reason is, someone needs to tell her to do it, sharpish. It's hard enough being a new starter let alone if it's your first ever "proper" job/you're only temporary, you don't have the confidence or authority to insist on things from permanent staff so someone else needs to step in. Otherwise trainee will be disadvantaged for not doing things that aren't her fault.

If you want to be nice you could frame it to secretary as "please can you help out x as much as you can, she would really benefit from help from someone as experienced and knowledgeable as you, I'm sure you remember how nervous you were during your first job" etc. Then reiterate it in a meeting with both of them present (doesn't have to be a formal thing just when you and trainee are both passing secretary's desk say "BTW secretary will help with anything you need so don't be afraid to ask with help in printing, filing etc." so neither can pretend to be confused about what's been agreed).

Or you could just say "oi, your job description is to help staff with these tasks, you don't get to pick and choose who and when."

plumtreebroke · 06/12/2023 12:52

Surely they only need help once for printing or filing expenses. If they just want her to do it all for them, it would depend on what her job description is and whether she has time to do her main job as secretary to the Lawyers and additionally do all the trivial work for the trainees.

Brird · 06/12/2023 12:57

Why not just ask her why she's not doing it? She might not know it's expected of her, or has to push back as she doesn't have time to do it.

Wishimaywishimight · 06/12/2023 13:07

How does the trainee approach her? When I worked at a law firm some of the trainees were quite arrogant and spoke 'down' to the secretarial staff, asking them to do some of the more mundane tasks that the trainees should (but didn't want to) be doing.

The managing partner took a dim view of this attitude and spoke to those involved.

Sleepingbunnies12 · 06/12/2023 13:10

Does the trainee have an allocated PA? If so the allocated PA should really pick up, not your PA just because the trainee works for you. I get things given to me by people I am not allocated to with the excuse that it "for" one of the partners I work for although the partner has delegated the task to a lawyer who has their own PA. Therefore their own PA should pick it up because I can't work for all of my own fee earners, plus everyone my 3 partners delegate to.

If not and the trainee is part of her set of fee earners then you need to raise it directly with her or her supervisor if she has one and if she doesn't respond put it in her appraisal.

Parker231 · 06/12/2023 13:12

Forward to HR as a potential performance issue.

User834621 · 06/12/2023 13:13

Maybe the team simply needs more secretaries? It used to be that PAs/secretaries only had perhaps 1 partner and a lawyer to work for, but now it’s team secretaries. Cost cutting for the firm, but getting their pound of flesh from the staff in existence. Maybe she is simply snowed under with varying priorities? I would be careful as if she is ‘fab’, I think it’s important to take care of good staff and see it also from their viewpoint.

PauliesWalnuts · 06/12/2023 13:15

Maybe she’s come from an organisation where everyone, from the CEO to its apprentices, does their own expenses, filing and printing? Our lawyers (and trainees) all do.

Vuurhoutjies · 06/12/2023 13:16

In my experience, sometimes support staff can be a bit twitchy about taking instructions from "junior" staff. This can be for ridiculous reasons - eg they get their own status internally from how senior the people they're working for - or it can be for legitimate reasons eg they're swamped with work for the senior people and have to prioritise them over the juniors - or sometimes it's because they just don't like the junior people (for legitimate or not legitimate reasons) and feel "safe" in saying no.

It's irrelevant though. if the team secretary's job is to do ALL expenses, including trainees, then whoever IS responsible as the secretary line manager, should be pointing this out and figuring out why it's not happening. For example is it because she is too busy? Is it because the trainee expenses are being handed in too late? Is it just because the trainee is rude?

I would also add that part of being a senior lawyer and training juniors is helping them with soft skills so making sure they understand process - eg if they want their expenses done on time, they need to make sure they get them in on time as the PA is busy, what format they must they be provided in, how to engage appropriately with other members of the team etc.

MargotBamborough · 06/12/2023 13:20

I would just tell it to her straight. I get that senior lawyers are usually prioritised but refusing to do anything at all for trainees is shitty behaviour and it means she's just refusing to do something within her job description. The trainees who have been allocated this secretary are just part of the group of fee earners she works for.

Mooshamoo · 06/12/2023 13:33

I'd say she is probably prioritising the senior lawyers. Do you only have one secretary. Maybe she doesn't have time ? Why dont you just sit down and talk to her about it.

NeverDropYourMooncup · 06/12/2023 13:33

Helping out isn't the same as doing the trainee's work for them, and recollections of the conversation may vary between 'The mean secretary you meant to say PA? won't help me' and 'he chucked all the work for the last week on my desk and said ''I need these done now'' before walking off'.

Check with her before making a decision.

Mooshamoo · 06/12/2023 13:35

Yes you are only hearing one side of the story. Check with her.

I would sit down with her and just say nicely - i just want to make sure that you know your job role is also to help the trainees with their admin".

She can then say if she has too much on or didn't realise or whatever.

User13579367337 · 06/12/2023 13:37

It sounds like an arrogance thing to me. She doesn’t like feeling like she’s being told what to do by a trainee. Unless the trainee is taking the piss or she’s so swamped she literally can’t do it, she definitely needs pulling on it

ChanelNo19EDT · 06/12/2023 13:39

30 years ago this would have been me, secretary for about 5 brokers and expected to wipe the arses of 10 lazy junior brokers too. Nope. When I was a junior I did my own "secretarial" work obviously. Having a secretary is not really a thing now, make sure the huniors or trainees are throwing their weight around.

mantyzer · 06/12/2023 13:41

Workload? I worked twice for lawyers and would never do it again. The workload in both cases was unrealistic for lowish pay and so I only responded to those who could sack me, I had to prioritise their work to keep my job. And lawyers IME ignore complaints about workload,

LookItsMeAgain · 06/12/2023 13:42

I heard something that Samuel L Jackson said recently - "be careful of the toes you step on today, for they could be connected to the ass you have to kiss tomorrow". Just thought I'd start with that nugget 😍

You say that the secretary doesn't report to the trainees, but who does the secretary actually report to? That person needs to have a quiet word with the secretary and say that so long as it is work that is similar to stuff that would come from the lawyers except it's coming from the trainee, the secretary shouldn't distinguish where it is coming from and just do it.

However, if the work is actually work that the trainees should be doing but are passing it to the secretary instead, then you have to have a word with the trainees to clarify exactly what they should be doing and what they can and can't pass off to the secretary.

mantyzer · 06/12/2023 13:43

And each lawyer will want their work doing immediately or very quickly. The trainees will have more time to do their work than the secretary will have.
And the secretary is bottom of the pile status wise.

ImCamembertTheBigCheese · 06/12/2023 13:43

Do the other secretaries support trainees?

All you can do is have an open conversation. Maybe this trainee has not been treating her well or maybe she thinks its beneath her role to support him, who knows.

I would expect any grown working adult to do their own printing though unless it was for a client meeting or it needed to be bound etc.

HunterHearstHelmsley · 06/12/2023 13:44

As a "secretary", I support two people. They have staff in their team, I am not their secretary though. I'd only do work for them if it involved the people I was actually supporting. I might help out if they ask nicely. My JD says "any other tasks as required", which I'm sure most people's JDs do.

How are they approaching her? Is it really in her remit?

mantyzer · 06/12/2023 13:45

And some trainees do treat secretaries like absolute shit.

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