How do you know if you're being manipulated

[Howcaniknowidontknow]

When I was growing up, I often had a disjointed sense of feeling like the things my mum said to me were wrong, but also believing that she could do no wrong, because she was my mum. As I got older, I realised that my feelings about what she said were valid but she kind of bamboozled me into thinking she was too much of a Saint to have ever said anything wrong.

I felt like I had a pretty good radar for manipulators but now I'm in a situation where I'm in very close contact with someone who I think is manipulative but im not sure if maybe im the problem. It's not a romantic partner but someone is in my life and I have to spend a good bit of time with them every day. I feel like they try to tug on my heart strings when I question certain things they do.

I don't want to give specifics but do want to know if you have a rule of thumb for how to detect BS. I feel like I'm losing my marbles a bit!

If it doesn't make sense then it doesn't make sense.

Alwats trust your gut. Somewhere deep down your brain (or your gut) has a rational reason for making you think this. You may never get to the bottom of it but trust it. The Gift of Fear is a good book to read on this subject.

I think try holding a boundary with this person, try saying no/ or holding tight to a position and keeping it a no. If they won’t allow it and will do anything to change that then they’re probably manipulative. Especially if they do it a lot.

I think stepping back and trying to have an objective factual view of situations also helps. Rather than getting bogged down in the piffle that they add in the form of emotional manipulation etc.

I feel like they try to tug on my heart strings when I question certain things they do.

This is too vague. Certain things they do to you or for themselves? What kind of things?

Imagine you're reading it in a magazine agony aunt column. If it sounds like BS then, it probably is.

Alternatively see a therapist who isn't afraid to say what he thinks. Mine does tell me if he thinks someone is taking me for a ride. And if I'm the one being the dickhead...

We work very closely together. I frequently have to point out that things aren't done correctly, which I hate doing. I don't want to be 'that person' but we work as a team and if something is done incorrectly, it affects the quality of the service. The atmosphere in the wprkplace is becoming uncomfortable because i feel tired of hand holding and am starting to experience resentment.

When I do question something, normally politely and professionally, there is often many reasons why xyz wasn't done properly, which all involve some sort of excuse and language that makes me feel guilty. I say 'normally' because there were two occasions where I was quite cross as there was a safety breach involved. This is very uncharacteristic for me to get angry and I feel like I'm turning into a different person.

I feel confused and bamboozled and it's reminding me of how I felt growing up. My instinct is saying I am being manipulated.

“there is often many reasons why xyz wasn't done properly, which all involve some sort of excuse and language that makes me feel guilty.”

They are saying this because they know they haven’t done it properly and trying to justify that. Just thank them for the explanation and ask that they do xyz like “this” in future.

I wouldn’t call it manipulation as such, more a backhanded acknowledgement of their own failings because if someone didn’t realise they were doing xyz wrong they would be more likely to say something like “oh, right, sorry, I never realised”. But instead, they’re trying to justify their own failings with waffle.

You will have an inner voice questioning their motives. You will deny your own instincts and feel guilty for suspecting them. If you have a previous manipulator in your childhood (and you have told current manipulator this) you are more of a target. Get therapy and get away from the perpetrator as this is nothing but abuse.

Yes I do and I feel like I'm going mad.

I feel confused and bamboozled they do this on purpose. They talk and talk at and over you specifically to confuse and bamboozle you. You go round and round in circles as they keep interrupting you, not actually listening to you, and somehow change the subject or track without you realising so you don't know what's happening. They throw facts and studies and quotes at you to "prove" what they're telling you but you have no way of checking them. They deflect and bounce things back to you because they're never wrong or at fault - it's always someone else.

Be direct and firm and don't be scared to assert yourself. Forget about politeness because they don't give a shit. Short sentences, refuse to be thrown off track - keep saying, "I'm not talking about XXX, I'm talking about YYY," and don't answer questions or statements about anything that has nothing to do with what you want to talk to them about.

Watch good TV interviewers, such as those on Channel 4, when they're holding politicians to account and use their methods.

When I do question something, normally politely and professionally, there is often many reasons why xyz wasn't done properly, which all involve some sort of excuse and language that makes me feel guilty.

OK I have one of these at work. He's just lazy and defensive. He had a bad home growing up and apologising and accepting blame were dangerous for him. I see this because there were no successful manipulators in my childhood. I don't feel guilty because there's nothing for me to feel guilty about.

And although there is a cack handed attempt to make you feel bad, no one can MAKE you feel guilty. If you do, it's either warranted, in which case it's a functional emotion. Or it's not, in which case you need to do the emotional work.

One of my parents has tried to manipulate me with guilt my entire life, up until about 3 years ago when I got therapy and put boundaries in place. It's taken me long time to individuate. Growing up, they often implied that I was cold, selfish, and once actually called me a monster.

The patterns of my life tell a different story. I make friends very easily, and keep them and recently someone told me that I'm one of the kindest people they've met. I get on with everyone and don't feel that people tend to take advantage of me as i generally have a good sense for CFs. There is rarely any drama in my life and so the evidence don't seem to match the accusations I had growing up.

So with this colleague, I've started thinking 'maybe I am a horrible person after all'. I'm working with someone who isn't good at their job amd this has created a general sense of not wanting to be around them much. They have picked up on it and feel hurt. I've tried hard not to let my feelings bubble up like this, but they have.

We've had several chats but the fundamental inability to do the job keeps rising to the surface, despite this person's efforts and reasons for the struggle.

Who is their manager? Surely if their work is below par, and especially if it is dangerous, their manager should be working with them to address the issues?

There is nothing at all wrong in getting cross or angry about something. It is absolutely normal and fine to feel that way. I suspect that you were conditioned in your childhood to question your own feeling so much that you completely shut down that part of you.

Why do you feel guilty for explaining that someone has done something incorrectly?Again, there is nothing wrong in asserting your position and telling them that there are mistakes in their work that need to be corrected.

You are being manipulated by this person. They are deliberately trying to evade any blame for something that they have done wrong, and twisting it round to make you feel bad. You know you are in the right here, so stand your ground and don't accept any of their bullshit excuses.

Stay strong, chin up, be quietly assertive and don't let the bastards grind you down!

Yes. I was conditioned to believe that being angry was naughty and even now it's seen as disrespectful if I am cross about anything. In my family dynamic, it becomes a really Big Deal and normally involves a falling out and the other person overpowers me with their counter anger. I was never allowed to just assert my feelings without the old 'oh I'm just a terrible parent then'. I guess because of this I don't like pointing out anything negative that anyone ever does.

When I was paired with this person in work, who is notoriously difficult to work with, I knew that I would have to be direct, and on the whole, they take it on the chin when i correct something. However, it has become the frequency that I'm being required to correct them, and often over very basic things that a teenage work experience would know to do/not to do. This person has many personal issues, about which they are very open, and so I feel like I'm spoon feeding a trainee, which they are not. I don't have the emotional energy to keep pointing out these basic mistakes.

We recently had a conversation and they are trying to ensure more of a balanced division of our work load, as best they can manage. I can see that the role is not a natural or comfortable fit for them; they struggle a lot and when things get ridiculous, I lose patience. Instead of losing my temper I have to suppress my annoyance in the workplace, which comes across as passive aggressive. I hate this, but its incredibly exhausting to calmly, respectfully and professionally explain to a colleague of equal training and experience to me, that they shouldnt do [very basic thing] and I don't want to do it any more. Sometimes I'm scared about what will happen if I open Pandora's box.

I've never had any kind of anger issues, am normally pretty chilled but am experiencing a confusing level of annoyance with this colleague. I don't know how to handle it and keep questioning if I'm the problem, even though I know I'm not.

The manager and manager's manager are aware. I don't want to say anymore but they know. It's complicated.

OK I'm going to tell you straight up.

Firstly, I'm sorry you had an abusive childhood with a manipulative and harmful parent who messed with your head - that's horribly traumatic. You're still living with that trauma and perhaps you've never fully processed it, 'gone there', and come out the other side and then learned the necessary tools to deal with difficult people = boundaries and open, honest, direct, assertive communication.

You seem to think that dealing with a difficult person means you're 'bad' or 'angry' which is not true and is also quite juvenile and unhelpful, apologies, not trying to be hurtful. Being passive aggressive is a dysfunctional inappropriate response to a difficult person and makes you as bad as them as it's also a form of manipulation. The way you've written these posts and beaten around the bushes is a clue to the fact you don't have skills to address problems or get help. So, what to do.

This person is triggering your own personal pain and issues. Acknowledge that. Part of what is triggered is nothing to do with them. However clearly they're a pain, they're not doing their job, and you've seen through them - that is the problem.

1. Spend much less time with them - physically move away, however that can be achieved, speak with them less, converse, interact less;

2. Don't listen to their long winded explanations of anything they've done wrong - learn some phrases and skills to interrupt them, cut them off, or straight up say 'it's OK you don't need to explain but here's how it needs to be done';

3. Let them know clearly their job performance isn't up to scratch and ask them to do x, y, z to correct it. Let your seniors know same;

4. Do not make passive aggressive or juvenile or frustrated comments - that's on you - this person could go from being crap at their job and a pain to making a legitimate complaint about you for the things you say!

5. Study from books or youtube channels or such how to be more assertive in communication, how to deal with difficult colleagues, how to say phrases to interrupt people, how not to be passive aggressive, how to communicate more directly, how to cope with people who trigger your ancient trauma etc... there's a whole field of inquiry out there.

6. Think about getting some 1:1 therapy (not counselling - a trained trauma therapist) and you tell them that this person is triggering old wounding and because of that it's causing you to struggle in the present moment with their difficult behaviour.

Sounds like this person isn't good at their job and will need to leave anyhow so it's a matter of letting it play out. But whatever they're doing wrong, you be very clear and open about it so they know - make a list - and make sure your bosses know.

I was in your position at work. Our manager blamed me for the work not being done or not done properly. I also got the blame when their refusal to work made me so angry I raised my voice a bit, though I am a very calm, quiet person. I was told I was wrong and would potentially have a disability. Another day I just cried and was told I was not capable of doing my job. It was an utter nightmare until my colleague went sick with stress and then left.
I should have been much more assertive and clearer with my boss instead of foolishly trying to protect my colleague. Please talk to your manager before things get even worse.

I know this thread is about a different topic, but I just thought I'd mention that although your family is your family, if they make you feel bad then you are not obliged to stay in contact with them if you don't want to.

There's plenty of advice about toxic parents from fellow survivors on the MN 'Stately Homes' threads.

I should have said disciplinary, not disability in my previous post.