To have doubts about giving Ds chicken pox vaccine

[Bells3032]

Let me preface this by saying I am probably one of the most pro vaccine people I've ever met..I volunteered with the COVID rollout and got vacicnated early. I booked ds for her vaccines as soon as slots became available.

I've booked my ds in for a private chicken pox vaccine on Saturday. As I know chicken pox, whilst generally more annoying than dangerous can have really dangerous complications. But I've heard from various people (including medical people I trust) that it may not give life long immunity. And surely that's more dangerous if she then catches it when she's older (or worse yet when pregnant). I know there's no way to know as it hasn't been out long but what are people's thought.

Please no anti Vax comments.its just because chicken pox itself is more dangerous when you're older .

Australian here. I refused to catch chicken pox as a child so caught it at 19. I was hugely sick. For a fortnight. I lost a stone of weight in a week!

However, my cancer patient DM caught it again. She was hospitalised for a month in the city before transferring to her local hospital for six months from where she never came home. She nearly died during that month. The wonderful nurses would tell us in the morning of fighting for her life overnight, multiple times. She was in full rigor for days.

If my toddler dd hadn’t been vaccinated (on the schedule here), she wouldn’t have been allowed in which meant that I would rarely have got to see her which would have killed us both. And as DF was staying with me, I don’t know how he would have managed.

The vaccine isn’t just for your child, it’s because you never know what’s around the corner for everyone in your family, if my experience is anything to go by.

And I will be getting the shingles vaccine as soon as I am eligible.

I had chicken pox as a toddler and most people get it at primary school. Apparently I was miserable (as you would be if you were itchy) but no long lasting effects. My mum caught it as a teen and she obviously remembers the itchiness and being miserable with it. No long lasting effects. I won't be giving my child the chicken pox vaccine because it's not usually given in the UK. I've also heard that it isn't that effective.

I know a couple of people who caught Shingles (one in their 20s and the other in their 30s) are they were fine. Apparently Shingles can be quite dangerous for old people though.

My DS was vaccinated against CP at 1. When, aged 2, his nursery had an outbreak, only the kids who’d been vaccinated avoided it. Hearing the stories of what the other kids and their parents went through made me very glad we’d made that choice.

It's standard public health where I am (Canada) at 12mos and again age 4. It surprised me the UK has just added this vaccination to protocol (if I read the news correctly). It's not uncommon to need booster shots years later. No big deal, really. 🤷‍♀️
Where I think public health fails is in not encouraging (and offering for free) boosters in adulthood when complications can be severe. I just queried the cost of the shingles vaccine for my mum: $160!!! She's getting it, though. I had a personal trainer who developed shingles and she was only in her 20's. Had a lot of pain and nausea and a welt-type rash on her torso.

I have done a fair bit of travelling, so took it upon myself to get boosters for pretty much everything. 😂

The vaccine doesn't have life long effective the older the child is - age 8 there is no point in giving it really. The child needs to be much younger as I understand it. My eldest had it age 6 and twins age 1 - all kids caught it one after the other - they weren't ill really. Mild discomfort. Every child in eldest class caught it - out of 30 kids just one sibling had it really bad

My DS nearly died from chickenpox a few years ago due to secondary infection resulting from it. It’s left him with horrible scars which will affect his self esteem when he’s older. Had there been a vaccine at the time hands down I would have taken it.

its a terrible illness and I remember my family and friends having “chickenpox parties” with their kids , I was in the minority where I thought the idea was abhorrent so I refused to take part but he caught it anyway. I had it mild myself but you just never know how it’s going to affect you (and others)!

You've heard wrong if you think the vaccine isn't effective. Why would it even exist? The evidence from the US where it's been given for decades is it's very effective.

You can't catch shingles; it can only happen if you've already had chickenpox. So if you've never had chickenpox you won't be getting shingles.

We've had the full gamut in our family. I had shingles in my 20s and bar chuldbirth, it's the most pain I've ever been in, I felt like I was being whipped and would sob with the pain.

DH caught chicken pox as an adult when I had shingles. He had a hellish time as well.

DD got chicken pox aged 6, a night or two of temp and a load of spots, wasn't bad but we needed to cover a week of childcare.

DS aged 3 caught chicken pox from dd, was much sicker with it then got strep a infection as well which got in as his immune was reduced by chickenpox. He got sepsis, needed his lung to be drained, spent a week on the brink of death with a ventilator, intubated, sedated etc.

It's such a horrible disease. Even when it's mild, it's a week off school and work with an itchy grumpy child. I'd go for the vaccine if I had my time again.

We didn't bother as we didn't see the point

@Lifeinlists

You can't catch shingles; it can only happen if you've already had chickenpox. So if you've never had chickenpox you won't be getting shingles.

I know you can only get shingles if you've had chicken pox. I know two people who developed it, one in their 20s and one in their 30s and they had chicken pox as children. Both were fine when they had shingles. Obviously risky if an old person developed shingles.

Both of my dc had the first dose. They didn't have the 2nd as we moved back to the UK. Both contracted CP (one off the other). The younger dc, who had had the vax sooner and wasn't due the booster yet had a very mild case. My older dc, who was due his booster, had more spots and was in more discomfort.

Also, being a form of the herpes virus, and hiding out in your nervous system forever more... I wonder that there aren't wider implications? Quick google, yep : https://www.nhlbi.nih.gov/news/2022/shingles-associated-increased-risks-cardiovascular-disease#:~:text=After%20analyzing%20data%20from%20more,a%20heart%20attack%20or%20stroke.

And pregnant women that unwittingly encounter cpox for the first time, and the disastrous implications of that. Surely it's better to vaccinate for that reason alone?

I also read the reasoning behind not giving the vaccination on the nhs for years was that naturally circulating cpox effectively served as a 'booster' for an unvaccinated wider population, namely older people and shingles. Now that the shingles vaccine is readily available that seems an unnecessary logic. From the NHS website:

'' Being exposed to chickenpox as an adult (for example, through contact with infected children) boosts your immunity to shingles.

If you vaccinate children against chickenpox, you lose this natural boosting, so immunity in adults will drop and more shingles cases will occur.''

My Aunt had shingles in her thirties, it was around her face and in her ears it was horrendous and left scars. She was lucky it didn't get in her eyes, it can cause blindness. It can be very nasty at any age. Pure luck how bad it is. A workmate got it around his chest in his forties, he said he wanted to 'tear his titties' off it was so painful, and the pain carried on long after the blisters had all healed.

Yes exactly@plumtreebroke
My grandmother did have shingles in her eyes and she ended up in hospital fearing for her sight. She was left with permanent facial pain from the affected nerves.
My chickenpox at 33 was horrendous. Any vaccine that can prevent all that is definitely worth having.

It's about 90% effective and if you do have the vaccine and still get infected it will be milder. You're less likely to get it too if most people are vaccinated as there will be less circulating.

We have DD vaccinated after DS was hospitalised for a week with pneumonia from chicken pox. He was so unwell and it took him a year to properly recover.
DD did get chicken pox, she was only had one dose as she was infected too soon for the second and it was indeed very mild.

This has been the historical reason why they didn't vaccinate against CP - theoretically it boosted protection for older people, however, they have just released the results of studies from countries which have had a CP vaccine programme for the last 2 decades and there was no significant increase in shingles/CP for older people therefore no benefit to withholding the CP vaccine at population level. That is why the NHS are now proposing offering it in future.

Also on the life-long protection point - the reason they can't prove life long protection is not because the vaccine is defective or inadequate in some way - it's because the vaccine simply hasn't been around for long enough to measure a lifetime of protection.

And as others have said, catching CP doesn't guarantee life long protection anyway. I was exposed to CP in early pregnancy and medical advice was to test for immunity antibodies (and vaccinate/treat if they were not present) despite me having had it as a child.

I missed Xmas age 7 because I was horribly ill with CP. You don't get many magical ones where you believe and remember and one of mine was ruined and I felt properly awfully ill. Still remember it 40 years later. I don't know why you'd willingly put your kids through a horrible illness if you can avoid it via vaccination.

I didn't get my children done due to this worry. It was at a time where you had to pay privately for the jabs and many friends were doing it, and then being told at their appointments that they couldn't say how long the immunity lasts, and more jabs may be needed when entering into adulthood, unsure if the jabs have changed since then, or there's more certainty around lifelong immunity. But, at the time, it made me feel uneasy. Plus one of DDs friends was really poorly after the jab (hospitalised), and again, that made me feel on the fence about it. As I was still debating, both DDs actually caught chicken pox from preschool, had quite mild cases. It didn't make them really unwell, just very itchy for a couple of days, and a slight temp which Calpol sorted out. I know for some it can be a really awful illness though, so I'm not minimising what t can mean for some, especially those who are immunocompromised, and that was my worry with not vaccinating them. But in hindsight, I'm glad they didn't have the vaccine. They sailed through chicken pox, by catching it naturally, and hopefully will have lifelong immunity, with no need to worry going into adulthood. I think if they hadn't had it before school age, I would have got the vaccination, as I know it can be worse for them having it when they're older, and wouldn't have wanted them to take take off school for something that could be prevented.

Presumably, they can't say it will give life long immunity if they don't know for sure. I had a travel vaccination as a teen that I was told would last for a set number of years. When I needed travel vaccines again later I was told that actually I didn't need that jab because now they know it lasts longer than had been thought.

As countries like the US have had chicken pox vaccine schedules for a while now, we are presumably getting updated information on how long immunity lasts. But until the first kids to get it reach old age we won't know whether it offers lifetime immunity.

My DC had the jab as a toddler and when CP went around their school they didn't get it. Very happy not to have to deal with them having it.

Wish I’d had my children done. They had awful chicken pox this summer, required antivirals and I needed about three weeks off work all in all!

This type of recommendation from the JCVI is binding so it doesn't need to be agreed to, it will be followed. How and when and the nature of the recommended catch-up programme is still something to be bottomed out, though.

My kids all caught chicken pox when they were young before the vaccine was really known about in this country. Two of them have prominent scars on their faces even though I followed all the guidelines and they didn't pick the scabs. I would vaccinate in a heartbeat given the chance now.

When my DS still hadn’t caught it age 9 I vaccinated him. My DH had CP as an adult and nearly died. He said it was the most terrifying experience he’s ever had. Even if they get a mild form later in life it’s worth it to avoid the myriad complications that seem to come with getting it as an adult.

All I said was that I know two people who have had shingles and they weren't too unwell. However, old people are more likely to be really ill. How is that inaccurate? Unless you think I am incorrect for saying old people are more likely to be ill if they develop shingles?

In the US and most European countries I know of, chicken pox vaccination is (and has been for years) part of the standard childhood vaccination programme. My 18 year old and my 15 year olds had it abroad as toddlers and never got sick. I do recall however friends having chicken pox as adults and having a horrible time because of the severity. This was pre-vaccination days and sadly they hadn't caught it as kids. For me it was a no brainer. If a vaccine is offered, you take it. In my case I sought it out abroad whilst on holiday.

@Shroedy that’s not correct JCVI advice is not binding it’s advice only. Any recommendations they make still have to be signed off by ministers before they become policy. Its unusual that they don’t agree however .