Teachers, where have the little trips gone?

[missjeanbrodiee]

My DD is getting into teaching so can’t ask her yet. But when she was little (21) they had a lot of trips which were just a walk to the park to gosh, or catch tadpoles, or pick flowers.

Is it too much paperwork? higher levels of supervision needed? Too much on the curriculum so not enough downtime?

I’m interested

This thread is making me feel a bit ill. I teach primary and used to love organising trips for my classes ‐walking or short local train or bus trips.

There is no doubt that the enrichment is so worthwhile, especially time spent in nature, as mine is an inner-city school in a deprived area.

But, as PPs have pointed out, there is neither time nor staff to organise these trips anymore. Several of my pupils are considered flight-risks, and would find it so hard to regulate behaviour and feelings in a new situation, even with additional support and just-in-case transport back to school on stand-by (an additional teacher with business insurance for their vehicle driving along and being accessible during transit), it's just too risky.

We do not ask parents to join trips as there are too many incidents of challenging behaviour, and the possibility of an untrained parent intervening in the 'wrong' way is an additional risk.

I'm sure you didn't mean it to but this reads like I should be grateful purely for for the fact some schools are in a crapper situation than we are.

There are so many reasons why educational visits don’t happen

It has changed greatly over the decades - mainly for reasons already stated.
There was an issue with parental complaints and a rise in suing schools which in the early 2000s the government tried to tackle ( think it was Lord Falconer the attorney general) however we are a litigious society and it only takes a few experiences of an angry parent demanding a teacher be sacked because little Johnny was upset - for heads and staff to feel worn out and less inclined to do these things

The elephant in the room - due to equality of opportunity and the disability discrimination act - if there is a child with ‘challenging behaviour’ the school cannot not take them. In many ways this is a good thing as schools sometimes avoided taking disabled children on visits. However let’s be real some children misbehave ( not because of Sen or anything) because parenting has become slack. So if your class has the nightmare kid unfortunately the teacher will weigh up the ‘cost’

Secondly - for those educational visits that costs ( and the involvement of a coach ramps up costs) the letter to parents has to say ‘voluntary contributions’ - again with the good intention that children are not excluded because parents can’t pay. However the school picks up the cost - usually when the budget is already buggered
Other parents - many of whom can pay take great satisfaction in not paying. Their reasoning being they don’t see why they should / sub the other kids etc
Ee had one mum who used to send her kid to school with an empty envelope- knowing that we wouldn’t embarrass the kid ( the parents were wealthy)
This sort of piss taking wears away at good will and the joy of teachers

Schools need to be better funded

Litigation needs to be sorted - in terms of parents think where there’s an accident there’s a cheque ( this does not mean staff want to be lacks about H and S but kids get bumps, touch the nettles etc)

Parents should be more grateful for the education their child gets ( unless it’s in special measures) teachers are leaving in droves and no one seems to quite get why

Giod luck to all the teachers starting out in their career - it’s a great job but it was always vocational ( not seen as that today ) because it takes so much from you

My DD's primary does a trip out to the big park 10 mins walk away. Each class goes there once a half term. They do other little trips, to the post box to post a letter, to a local restaurant to do some cooking, to the canal and local shopping area. Everything within walking distance, and none of these trips cost anything.

Is anyone else thinking there should be some sort of fund schools could apply to that would cover the costs of small trips? 3

There is so much to be learned, particularly at primary level, some educational but also some social aspects.

I remember when Jamie Oliver did his experiment of opening a 'school'. At one point the children were taken to the theatre and had complaints made about them by other theatre goers, both to the organisers and directly to the children who were quite vocal back.

I found myself thinking, "Why didn't anyone tell them how to behave?"

I’m 38. I remember when I was at one school, the teacher would put about 6 of us in her class into her car and drive us to her house at lunch break to visit her horses. No seatbelts and we’d all be squished up on the back seat. No parental permission, no paperwork.

Imagine that these days!

And how much paperwork is going to be involved in applying to that fund?? I don't think any teacher is going to want to write a grant application for a walk to the post box.

For us it's staffing. In school the ratio is 1:30, out of school it is 1:8 in some classes and that's the bare minimum. Most TAs in school are now 1:1s and so " don't count" in staffing ratios. Any trip out means you need to beg, borrow or steal staff from another class and there are fewer and fewer of them available ( we now can't afford to replace class TAs when they leave so only have 3-4 left) . We ask for parent volunteers but get very few ( and last time, one parent spent all her time on her phone!) .
If you can get over that hurdle, cost is another for anything other than a walk to the local park or church. Coaches are extortionate( we pay around £450 for a coach day trip so that's £15 per child before you start!) there's no local train station ( the nearest is 4 miles away) and a bus passes through the village once a day! Parents can't afford or refuse to pay, the school can't afford to subsidise.
And then there's the paperwork!!!!,

Applying for the Turning scheme for funding is 10000 words. Then theres all the school / council paperwork if you get it. It is a job in itself.

My dc only year 1 but did loads of little trips like you mention in reception and a couple already this year too. It looks like they do them all the way up. Must depend on the school?

Good schools do still manage this. Ours does. It’s great! They’re very sensible when it comes to sickness policy too. Genuinely care about giving the children a lovely, rounded educational experience.

It’s a long time since I was at primary but we did loads of this. Walked to the old folks’ home to donate harvest festival food gifts, local park, cemetery, walks in the fields, local stream, local library, farm - common sense seemed to be the order of the day.

It's not about a school being 'good' or 'bad'. Many people have explained how for some schools it's an impossibility due to circumstances beyond their control. All teachers see the benefit in these trips.

Parents won't pay for big trips so little trips are all we do! One of our school projects is enrichment so we try and do a trip or onsite workshop every half term.

Permission for local trips to the church, library, post box etc are covered in our admissions paperwork. We are lucky to have a forest school area and a wildlife garden on site.

We are lucky to be in London and can get free TFL travel for school trips which opens up our local area as well as central London to us.

The main barriers are staffing and first aid ratios and the costs associated with that.

Another reason to add to all of the above is the anxiety of some parents.
We had a trip out , well covered with sufficient staff but a parent choose to follow us at a distance as so anxious about her child of about 8. It was very uncomfortable.
Also we have had complaints from parents about wasting valuable educational time as they failed to see the value in the trip.
So teachers sometimes think: don't draw all this on yourself!!

I’ve had that. We went to a local attraction and the mother of one child followed us at a distance the entire way.

Also it’s all very well and good have parent volunteers but there is so much they can’t do, like take a child to the toilet or be left alone. And while some are wonderful I’ve had many occasions where they have spent the entire time with their own child/ on their phone/ smoking/ drinking alcohol that you have to be very careful about who you take.

My kids are at a small central London state primary and they do tons of trips.

Everything from a walk around the local park to Westminster Abbey. Parents do volunteer to help for the day long ones.

Seems it's unusual. I'm grateful they do it, I think it's brilliant.

I do think some of the kids don't get taken to all the amazing places close by in London by their parents, so it's really good they get to do it with school.

Paperwork. I organised a day trip for October, all planning forms were handed in and approved before the summer holidays. Change of head teacher over the summer and I was repeatedly questioned by SLT, admin and finance how I had planned x, why z was approved etc, finance withdrew their help which meant that I had to chase payments, I was chasing my own tail for weeks.
The trip was great and the kids enjoyed the day, but I cancelled the second trip I had planned due to all the hassle. I simply don’t have time for all of the paperwork involved.

My youngest dd is 15. At nursery they used to do all sorts of ad hoc trips. To the park, to the shops to buy ingredients all sorts.
At the same time the oldest one was in Secondary school. I had to complete 2 forms and was asked to pay for insurance to a trip to the park next to the school.

Says it all really.

Coaches are so expensive these days that we just can't afford a simple trip. Parents are told the visit is free and get an £8 bill and can't work out why but there is never profit made.

If 2/3 of the class pay then you are lucky and there is no money floating around to top up.

It's sad

I guess the advantage of the central London school is they go on the tube or bus.

Wow, it's threads like these that make me really appreciate our tiny village school.
Our kids regularly go out on little trips down to the field or across to the green; down to the cricket club or stream. Welly walks are a weekly activity in KS1; & still done several times a term in KS2. They will sometimes have a fire & toast marshmallows.
They also do bigger trips - KS2 has had one already & there are 2 whole school trips planned in the next few weeks to the theatre & to a local attraction for a Christmas themed day.
Even the preschool children go out regularly on small & larger trips!

How many children/staff to a class?

Yes same but we’re in a town. Trips to the beach, local church, playground, library just around town to look at bridges etc. all walking and free. Do need parents though to help out. Then other trips we do need to pay for like to see a play, go to a nature reserve, museum etc. but overall lots of trips!!