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Original poster

Everyday sexism- help me test a theory

62 replies

MinnieMountain · 04/11/2023 06:39

Having had a man swim into me in the pool on purpose yesterday because I overtook him (was definitely on purpose), reminded me of a theory I have:

As a tall woman of 5ft 10 I’ve only experienced overt sexism when it’s not been clear that I am tall (leaning over my bike, swimming, cycling). So my theory is that tall women experience fewer incidents of overt/everyday sexism than average height or short women.

Obviously my theory is based on a sample of 1 so far, so I’m curious what others think.

OP posts:
BibbleandSqwauk · 04/11/2023 07:39

I'm short but it depends what you mean...I frequently ask for help to get stuff off a high shelf in shops, or help is offered if someone sees me struggling..it's almost always a man. I don't know if that's sexism exactly. It's certainly helpful!

Original poster
MinnieMountain · 04/11/2023 07:54

I mean things like men saying “smile love” or shouting “you can do it” when I’m cycling up a slight hill.
I appreciate that being short has challenges that men are more likely to help with as they are generally taller.

OP posts:
thelongroad · 04/11/2023 08:04

Oh this is a really good point. I often read threads about sexism and find myself not recognising a lot of what many other women are describing....but maybe you're onto something as I am 6ft and quite imposing :D

ArseMenagerie · 04/11/2023 08:08

I think your theory has legs - men only try this nonsense when they can get away with it ie. when there are no other men nearby and their chances of getting punched in the face are low. I think physicality must come into this primitive calculation.

justalittlesnoel · 04/11/2023 08:09

I'm over 6ft and find I experience the same amount of sexism as my friends, still get comments and things shouted at me.

justabigdisco · 04/11/2023 08:10

Haven’t been swimming in ages; you’ve just reminded me of blokes never letting me overtake them at the end of a lane. So frustrating - you wait for them to swim half a lane before setting off but still catch them up by the end (this is in fast lane!) - despite this they REFUSE to let you go past.

pickledandpuzzled · 04/11/2023 08:10

I’m bang smack in the middle. I think it’s a possibility but none of us have a counter factual. We only know our own stories.

GnomeDePlume · 04/11/2023 08:11

When I used to commute into London regularly I would often see men barge past/through women. These would be 'city' types who would no doubt performatively hold open doors for women in the office and other obvious courtesies. But out where no one knew them they would be quite boorish.

My theory was that they see women as small, weak men. Beneath them. A tall woman wouldn't so easily fall into that category.

Spookymormonhelldream · 04/11/2023 08:12

Interesting. I’m 5’10” with resting bitch face. I don’t get too much overt sexism/harassment, eg men pestering me on the tube or whatever. I do have to double down on my seriousness dealing with builders etc. But I’m more left alone than my petite peers!

bozzabollix · 04/11/2023 08:14

I’m short but have a resting bitch face I reckon. Not much to report on the sexism front, I think they can tell I’d call them out on it.

Ritasueandbobtoo9 · 04/11/2023 08:15

I’m small and blonde. I get this even now I’m older. I got “told off” about something ridiculous by a older man at in a spa recently so I quietly got my ripped husband to join me and funnily enough the man kept going in silence even though husband did same.

Spacemoon · 04/11/2023 08:20

I actually think this theory might make sense! I do think that short women are subjected to men treating them as 'cute' or like children at times, so this definitely adds to the sexism.

Thinking of all my female friends and relatives, the only woman I know who openly speaks about not having experienced much, if any sexism, is very tall.

I'm on the shorter side of average height and have experience a lot of sexism sadly, mostly from rather short men though interestingly and almost exclusively from men under 6ft. I wonder if height plays a part on both sides?

GnomeDePlume · 04/11/2023 08:22

This is one of the things which had made WFH interesting. On camera we are all the same height. It is far harder for physically dominating types to push through.

Where/when I swim the group tends to be older. You don't see many of the 'hairy torpedoes' (thank you, Victoria Wood). The fast lane tends to be populated by lean, efficient, women who do their mile then go.

CrispsandCheeseSandwich · 04/11/2023 08:27

I mean things like men saying “smile love”

I'm 5'2 and rarely get any comments when out. Even when out running I don't get anything shouted.
But my friends have said that my resting face is very "fuck off and do not speak to me" so that might be part of it. I also don't get approached on the street by charity collectors, or people trying to sign you up for something etc.

My face is misleading, I'm actually pretty timid and wouldn't ever take someone to task for a sexist comment on the street.

Windthebloodybobbinup · 04/11/2023 08:27

This reminds me of infuriating comments men make to me when I run. I think that looking fat makes it worse- every time I run some idiot, usually mamil, will shout 'encouragement' like - keep going! Or well done! Fuck off!!!!! Can't stand the assumption that I need or appreciate their commentary. I've run every week for years, but even if I was just starting out why do they think a woman needs or wants their patronising encouragement!!!

Mnopgxcgdcv · 04/11/2023 08:31

I am short and also 44 years old. I don’t experience the ‘smile love’ kind of sexism much these days, but I did when I was young.

sashh · 04/11/2023 08:43

5 ft 0.

I think this is true OP.

CatOnTheCludgy · 04/11/2023 08:51

OP you are absolutely correct.
Height is definitely a factor. And most/ lots of meetings on zoom now means a man's height has no bearing on how the meeting goes for him. No holding the door open, choosing chairs to sit on. Just click join call and your head magically appears beside everyone else's on the screen. It's very levelling.

I am 5 7 and in heels I'm at or taller than average man. Funnily enough pre covid I did wear heels in the office. Purely to give me height as leverage against the geezers. As it works. And a firm handshake. No hugs or air kisses. I tell my colleagues I don't do hugs, end of.

Original poster
MinnieMountain · 04/11/2023 09:06

That’s interesting to have my theory largely confirmed. As PP it’s a power thing so men are going to be more likely to do it to people they perceive to be weaker than them and height is part of that.

I’m 44 but I don’t recall my age ever making a difference.

@CatOnTheCludgy I used to wear heels for meetings with certain male clients so I was taller than them.

I wish there had been lanes up as usual yesterday @GnomeDePlume . Doubtless the hairy torpedo (brilliant) I encountered would have been in the fast lane, whereas as a fast breaststroker I would be in the medium.

OP posts:
EBearhug · 04/11/2023 09:31

To be fair, if you were doing breaststroke and I was swimming front crawl, I probably wouldn't let you swim in front of me, either, unless it were clear you were a really fast breaststroker, which most people in public sessions aren't, at least at my pool.

Mnopgxcgdcv · 04/11/2023 09:33

I have been thinking about this… I said upthread that I am short and it happened a lot more when I was younger. It did, in all parts of life. But it also happened a lot more when I was younger and doing certain types of activities cycling hard up hill, climbing, and hiking through mountains than it did in every day life. I haven’t done those things much since I have been visibly middle-aged (at least not without a child in tow!), so I can’t say whether it would have gone away now, but I think there is also something about that type of activity that brings it out of some men (a subconscious desire to diminish?!?!).

GnomeDePlume · 04/11/2023 10:42

@Mnopgxcgdcv I'm not sure if it is a desire to diminish more that a woman doing something well challenges what they perceive as the natural or correct order of things.

A man is better than women at doing physical things. If he isn't then something is wrong in the universe.

This type of thinking will defy all logic and visible evidence. It will lead to men attempting overly heavy weights, sprinting to run or swim past women.

It isnt all men at all but it is a recognisable type.

Original poster
MinnieMountain · 04/11/2023 13:57

@EBearhug there were no lanes up, so I was swimming next to him in a large pool. At one point as I pushed off, I realised I was going to be between him and another person doing front crawl. I didn’t fancy that so I challenged myself to go a bit faster. At no point was I swimming in front of him and getting in his way.

OP posts:
Original poster
MinnieMountain · 04/11/2023 14:06

I wonder if there are 2 types- those who don’t like to be challenged by woman (like pale blue swimming hat man) and those who shout the “smile love” comments. The latter type who have said it to me have middle aged and fatter.

OP posts:
Magatha · 04/11/2023 14:09

GnomeDePlume · 04/11/2023 08:11

When I used to commute into London regularly I would often see men barge past/through women. These would be 'city' types who would no doubt performatively hold open doors for women in the office and other obvious courtesies. But out where no one knew them they would be quite boorish.

My theory was that they see women as small, weak men. Beneath them. A tall woman wouldn't so easily fall into that category.

This still happens to be on the London commute! The men seem desperate to get on to trains and almost push past women, whereas women will line up behind and not barge. As a generalisation of course.