Would you consider this to be bullying?

[User473738162837374332]

Hi all, NC. Have posted similar before a while ago. DD 9 is having some issues with a child that was a ‘friend’ but they have now grown apart - which I’m quite thankful for. I’ve always thought the child was awful to dd

dd has SEN, despite this she loves school, is generally confident and popular and has lot of friends. It was just issues with one said friend. A whole list of things that I’m not going to get into again on this post

dd also has gross motor skill delays and often can’t keep up with her peers. This is important for the next part.

this girl whether it’s outside or inside school will make a beeline for dd if she has anything on her head ie headband, hat etc and run off with it. I’ve witnessed this myself and have to step in. She’s ran off with it knowing dd cannot keep up with her and often chucked the item into an unreachable area.

it sounded trivial to most people but causing dd a lot of stress and upset but dd will often hold it in until the kid is out of sight. I have spoke to her teacher because it has happened a few times in school.

out of school we avoid them as much as poss buy living so close to said child it happens out of school. I’ve had to step in and say give it back and the mother just turns a blind eye or says ‘she’s just playing’

dd was cold this morning but wouldn’t wear a hat to school over the fear of this happening.

I am at a loss. I think the teacher and the mum just think the kid is playing but it causes dd distress!

the same kid will also run up behind dd and push her knowing dd is unsteady on her feet.

how would you approach this?!

I would approach the other mum when the other child hasn't done anything to DD that day.

Explain that DD is very upset with what's happening and that even though the other mum thinks her child is just playing, it's really getting to your child. You'd really appreciate it if she'd get on board and tell her child not to do it going forward.

If it keeps happening after that then yes it's bullying but at the minute the other mum may not realise just how upsetting it is to DD

Tell the teacher

I often read these things and think it’s someone overreacting but that is, to my mind, definite bullying. It’s happening repeatedly and there’s a power difference (the girl knows your daughter can’t keep up). If the teacher won’t do anything then I would go to the headteacher.

it is bullying, of course it is, it is persistent and deliberate and detrimental, so fulfills all three criteria of bullying. Email the school and ask for this bullying to be dealt with - keep an email trail

Running off repeatedly with something when they know the other child can't keep up. Yes that's bullying in my book, mean behaviour at a minimum. I'd start making a fuss.

Grab it back off her and tell her straight to stop being so spiteful and nasty. If her mother wont discipline her, I'd be telling her myself that her behaviour is unacceptable and bullying.

This is bullying 100%.

The teacher is useless if she doesn't recognise that this is shite behaviour. In fact it isn't just plain old bullying it's disablist bullying.

Can you tell us, if the other parent / family have some influence at school? Are they PTS / governor / donate lots etc? Or are they friends with the teacher?

Because the teacher is not at all good at her job if she doesn't tackle this crappy situation head on. I would raise this with the SLT, do not be fobbed off and be prepared to kick up a right old stink including involving the governors.

The other girls may be just silly or a bit dumb but the fact that her parents or the teacher don't put an end to this is outrageous. It must stop.

Oh and sure, it's just 'playing' and a bit of playful silliness right? Well, no. Because your dd is being made to feel helpless and worthless each time this happens. So this nasty 9 year old girl (at that age this is BTW not normal behaviour) is picking on a helpless girl and enjoying it.

Thanks guys. Good to see it from other perspectives. There is other issues too, not just this but this is the thing that really plays on DD’s mind. Before school she is fretting about it. Teacher has been spoken to a few times about different issues including this and I have witnessed this behaviour.

the mum has no influence in the school (I think a PP asked this) however the mum is the type where ‘my kids can do no wrong’ sort of mum.

previously dd and this child had been friends but I had started to notice toxic behaviour (if 8/9 year olds can be toxic?!) a while ago and their friendship has fortunately fizzled out but odd things still happening including this. The child’s mum is also an utter nightmare so sometimes I think it’s just learnt behaviour!

Sadly you are right. The worst thing is dd feels the cold but won’t wear a hat to school because of it 🫣 worried she’ll lose her hat, it will end up in the mud or on a roof! I’m ordering her a hooded scarf as we speak so she can grip tight in the hand compartments, shouldn’t have to do that though…

however the mum is the type where ‘my kids can do no wrong’ sort of mum.

Typical.
You need to get the school on your side. Please read up on their behaviour policy, all school should have a link on their website. Familiarise yourself with it and print it out to bring it with you to a meeting. Request a meeting in writing so that there is a paper trail. Say this isa huge concern especially due to your dd's condition / disability and list dates when this has happened. If you write to them they can't later deny any knowledge. Ask for an urgent meeting with the head and the school safeguarding lead. DO NOT be fobbed off. You have to take control of this. Ideally, take your dh or someone else to the meeting to support you. Be very factual but list all the things this girl does, how often and the effect it has on your dd. Your dd goes to school to learn and school have a duty to safeguard her, it's their legal duty. This is made even more significant because the girl is abusing the physical disability of your DD. Take notes during the meeting and look like you mean business. Among other things, the cold affecting your dd is also a safeguarding concern. If she feels worried, cold and apprehensive she is not in the best place for learning, which is why she is at school. Fight your dd's corner. Do not speak to the useless mother at all. Try and see if you can get some other mums on your side. It can help but don't gossip about this to them too much. Be very professional.

‘Keeping children safe in education’ says that all staff should be aware that children are capable of abusing their peers and that they should be clear about their relevant policies and procedures to address peer-on-peer abuse.
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/review-of-sexual-abuse-in-schools-and-colleges/review-of-sexual-abuse-in-schools-and-colleges#:~:text='Keeping%20children%20safe%20in%20education'%20says%20that%20all%20staff%20should,peer%2Don%2Dpeer%20abuse.

https://www.nationalbullyinghelpline.co.uk/kids.html

It’s bullying 100 percent. No innocent play involves chucking another child’s possessions out of their reach. No child finds that fun.

This link refers to all sorts of abuse don't let this put you off, have a read.

Emotional / psychological abuse is and should be taken seriulsy https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/review-of-sexual-abuse-in-schools-and-colleges/review-of-sexual-abuse-in-schools-and-colleges#:~:text='Keeping%20children%20safe%20in%20education'%20says%20that%20all%20staff%20should,peer%2Don%2Dpeer%20abuse.

For example, my dh is one of the most laid back and resilient people I have ever met, he does not sweat the small stuff, ever. As a boy and teen he was super sporty and quite popular from a well regarded family in the small place they are from. From age 9-11 a group of boys from his primary picked on him on the way to school. They actually did pick his hat on countless occasions and threw it away or withheld it. He remembers this so well and felt helpless to do anything about it, didn't even tell his parents. Your dd can't even run or defend herself against this girl this will leave long memories for her. Her disability or 'weakness' is being exploited. The other girls is a nasty person.

Absolutely don't approach the other parent which won't be what the school would want anyway. If it's getting to the point DD can't wear a hat I'd be speaking to the teacher at the school to have a word.

Don’t speak to the parent, it makes it so much harder for the school to get involved. Speak to the teacher and follow it up with an email to the head. I teach this age and would deal with this very firmly. Yes, kids come with all kinds of experiences and trauma which may be a reason for the perpetrator behaving this way. That doesn’t make it ok though and the school can stop this happening while there. School should be a safe space.

That breaks my heart to read. Poor wee toots. I hope you get it sorted OP. Sending positive thoughts your way 🩷

I have to say I would be raising my voice with the other child, I would try to catch her as she goes to take the hat and shout very loudly NO,you don't take other people's things. If the mother intervenes,I would be pointing out that it's unacceptable behaviour to take something that is not belonging you.

Agree with others, speak to the teacher!

On a practical note meantime what about this sort of trapper hat that buttons under the chin, cannot easily be removed!

https://www.trespass.com/zazu-kids-trapper-hat-290622?utm_source=google&utm_medium=organic&utm_campaign=shopping_feed&utm_content=free_google_shopping_clicks&gad_source=1&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIveDpto2pggMV2fDtCh3dLAJUEAQYBCABEgLTrPD_BwE#color_code=Navy%20Fleck&size_legacy=5/7

Thanks all. I don’t want to approach the parent and I don’t intend to right now however I don’t know if the school will take it seriously when it happens outside of school, even though it happens in school too?! The child has done it in front of me a few times and I’ve ended up grabbing item back and putting somewhere out of reach from her and then back to dd!

I’ve been really poorly this week but I have a pre arranged meeting with her teacher this week and I will bring it up then, thanks all!

there has been a whole list of other things and teacher is aware this includes things like said child mocking DD’s hair colour - she has red hair like me and hers is beautiful as well as saying dd has ugly eyes - dd has a scar on her eye from being hit (accidentally) at school a few years ago amongst other things 🫣 dd is struggling with reading and being screened for dyslexia soon and this child has made remarks about dd having easy books as she can’t read. I did step in and say something. This is happening in and out of school but we avoid the family as much as poss outside of school, but not easy as they live a few doors down! 🫣

That's even worse but I am not surprised. I hope you will feel better and have a productive meeting with school.

It really is a good idea to list every single thing that this girls has ever done, ideally with a timeline. I have experience with this and. I wouldn't just meet with the teacher.

You could call school again on Monday and ask to meet with the teacher and another teacher who is the safeguarding lead. It's a good idea to bring your dd's dad or another relative for support. You really do have to try and be assertive and very factual.

Start the meeting by saying you have very serious concerns about the behaviour of one of your dd's classmates and that having read the school's behaviour policy (you've got to read and print it and bring it with you as it will make them take you more serious) it is now clear that your dd is being bullied by this girl. Show them the print out listing all the things that this girls has done, ideally with location (school / outside of school) , date and time. Do not leave this print out with them but say that you will email it to them after the meeting. Then ask them how they are planning to safeguard your dd. She has a legal right to feel safe at school and the school have a duty of care and they have to ensure she is safe.

It is really important to mention your dd's disability / difficulties /suspected disability and how the behaviour of the other girl is impacting on your dd's education, confidence and she is developing anxiety and showing signs of school refusal (which they'd want to avoid).

If they don't support your dd and deal with this they will open the school up to all sorts of problems including ofsted, governors and council, especially as your dd does seem to have additional needs. You then have several options to escalate or to change school. If it's a good school with good leadership they'll manage it and all will be well. If it isn't it might be better to find a new school.

Will this horrible girl (and yes she is horrible no special needs makes her pick on your poor dd in that way) go to the same secondary? With the way her family are turning a blind eye, this girl will most likely grow up to be a nasty bully. Keep your dd away but also do avoid drama if possible.

I'm a teacher. I'd consider this to be bullying and would definitely do something about it.

If the teacher doesn't listen, take it to the HT. If the HT doesn't listen, make a formal complaint to the governors.

We'd take it seriously if it was happening inside as well as outside school.

We've also addressed SM bullying outside school when it can't happen in school because the children don't have their phones

I swear I think II’ve read this exact same thing before