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Original poster

Flatmate says I owe her £600

641 replies

Digestivesandcheese · 02/11/2023 15:11

I was meeting my flatmate (who is also a good friend) in London recently and agreed to bring her weekend bag with me on the train (She was meeting her DM earlier in the day for a trip to the Theatre) I had a rucksack containing my things for the weekend.
I got off the train in London and realised I had stupidly left her bag on the train. I got back on the train but the bag was gone! It hasn't turned up in lost property. I have chased up several times.
My friend says I owe her £600 for the bag and contents. I agree it was my fault but can I claim compensation from the rail company as the bag hasn't turned up? If not, I will have to borrow money to pay my friend for her things

OP posts:
KatJarratt · 04/11/2023 00:42

notlucreziaborgia · 04/11/2023 00:01

as kind as it was of you to offer assistance, I did in fact manage to pick up the gist from the first one.

LOL though, because if being quite happy to not have a friend that wouldn’t take responsibility for losing my belonging they lost through their own carelessness and replace them means ‘all I have is money’ then….actually I’m failing to see any downside at all to this. Yeah, this more than works for me, so I’m going to go ahead and stick with this option.

Show quote history

So actually you didn't get the gist at all!

K2054 · 04/11/2023 00:47

And maybe the friend whose bag was lost had things in it they can't afford to replace either. Why should they be the one to have to borrow money to replace them when their friend lost it.

It's horrible for both of them, but if you agree to be responsible for something then you have to pay for it if you haven't looked after it responsibly. I feel for both parties, but I hope the author of the thread ignores all the venom being spouted at her friend and tries to salvage the friendship.

notlucreziaborgia · 04/11/2023 00:47

KatJarratt · 04/11/2023 00:42

So actually you didn't get the gist at all!

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Oh, I got it, what i’m saying is that I’m perfectly happy about it.

alchemisty · 04/11/2023 01:05

If I were her, I wouldn't ask for the full cost from you (or any cost at all if I could afford it) as you were doing her a favour

llizzie · 04/11/2023 01:53

It has just occurred to me that the OP has to live with this person if they are room mates in the flat. That means she must know the value of the overnight bag contents, or at least know if the flat mate had things of value in it.

It is rather more serious than I first thought.

I would not like to share a flat with someone who expected me to pay all that money for what was - after all - only an overnight bag. I don't think I have anything of that value to put in an overnight bag, but then being disabled, I don't go out overnight.

ChiefWiggumsBoy · 04/11/2023 02:04

coffeeaddict77 · 03/11/2023 23:30

I haven't realised that 600 isn't that much at all. Not sure how you came to that conclusion. My items in total for a weekend bag would be about £150.

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Not for replacement they wouldn't, would they? I very carefully asked where you would normally buy your clothes from because I knew the fact that you were adamant that £600 was so much that you'd wheedle round that.

Even a single replacement jumper and pair of jeans from Asda you'd be lucky to get change from £30 but apparently a full weekend's worth of clothing would be £60 + the dress? Give over.

Mittleme · 04/11/2023 04:35

Oh well it's not comparable but still same principle am afraid plus I've heard lots of other stories
if your items worth millions then you shouldn't give it to others to carry it for you ( not saying it s ok to loose items )
anyone can forget anything in the train it doesn't matter whether you are a grown adult or not . It was a mistake am sorry mistakes happen

WilderRose · 04/11/2023 06:44

After reading this I realise I have a similar example. Years ago I entrusted a musical instrument to a friend to store in her rented, shared house. When came to collect had gone. Friend upset but clearly stolen by another housemate. No proof and never resolved. Huge telling off from Dad who bought said instrument. A problem with insurance. My fault entirely.
It still gets brought up by my Dad occasionally....
I took hit as I gave responsibility of an expensive item to a friend without thinking anything could go wrong. We stayed friends for many more years...

Jesscat24 · 04/11/2023 06:45

This is a difficult situation that needs to be agreed between you and your friend but I am surprised at how many people are just saying it's your fault so pay up £600.

Depending on the size of the bag you may have had to have stored it in the larger storage holding bays at the end of the cabin so it is not necessarily you being 'negligent' if someone then stole it. Personally I hate having to put my cases in those storage areas but when I have multiple bags/larger bags and the train is busy I have no option and although I do try to keep an eye on my bags it is difficult when the train is busy. So I think this needs a bit more clarification - where was the bag/could you have kept it next to you/above you?

The fact you left the train is a bit of a red herring if you got straight back on. If you had just walked off and forgot about the bag completely and not got back on it would be a different story.

Sounds as if you have been the victim of a crime. If you were walking down the street with the bag and got mugged/the bag was stolen would the same people on this thread be saying it was your fault and you should pay up? I appreciate this would be different but hopefully you understand my point about the distinction between a crime and being negligent.

Further, let's say you are negligent/it is your fault I wouldn't say you need to buy her brand new everything that was in the bag. In litigation you are entitled to the replacement cost of an item allowing for wear and tear i.e. what would it cost to replace her items/bag with second hand items?

At the end of the day you were trying to do her a favour and as friends and flatmates you should probably want to work something out between you as a compromise. E.g. offer to buy a similar second travel bag like the one that was stolen and any big ticket item or give her £200 - £300.

Good luck!

Mugaloaf · 04/11/2023 07:05

In the past I offered to hand something over to someone for a friend. It got lost at school. I offered to pay. The offer was declined, but I felt terrible!

Luckily it was found the next day.

It's tough that you were doing a favour, but you lost her stuff...

katedean · 04/11/2023 07:23

Bit cheeky. She could have left the bag in the secure cloakroom at the theatre. Your bad for forgetting bag but it is what it is. I don't think you owe her anything. Your friendship more important hopefully.

ZurichX · 04/11/2023 08:15

I would just say to her the truth- that you feel terrible but you can only afford x amount. Then try as hard as you can to work out what happened and chase the bag down if it was stolen- that shows that you care. In most situations it’s best to just be honest and try to work it out rather than feel pushed into something and resentful.

It’s interesting that the discussion has gone down such a tangent of half-used lipsticks and makeup etc. Makeup doesn’t last forever and she would have had to replace them at some point and presumably is fine with spending this amount. If you don’t have as much money as her why should you pay full cost for her next round of luxuries? I would never demand this from a friend I knew had less money. Most people take great care to balance out things with friends they know have less money than them so that there are no hard feelings. In any case we don’t know what exactly was in the bag…

Pip81 · 04/11/2023 08:33

What kind of friendship is this? If this was me and my friend lost my bag, I would be annoyed but would never ask for compensation. Friendship should mean more than material belongings!

AnotheBiscuit · 04/11/2023 08:48

There's usually a sign in the train saying, "All property is left at the owners risk" so that would mean, by law, you have agreed to use the train service by sitting on the train to your destination, knowing full well that the sign stipulated that all the property you bring is not the train companies issue. Imagine the consequences somebody said they lost a brief case with a Million quid in and then advised the rail company it was their fault. Inflation would be 100 percent and we would have no rail system. So no, by rights your friend can sue you but if I were you I'd just pay her back slowly and be nice, she may even let you off a few hundred quid, swallow pride and just rectify the issue as soon as possible.

1mabon · 04/11/2023 09:06

It is your responsibility - end of story

Rocket1982 · 04/11/2023 09:24

"All property is left at the owner's risk" - well the OP wasn't the owner! The owner of the item knew the property was going on a train journey where the item could get stolen and accepted the risk of that journey. It would have been different if the OP had borrowed a bag of her friend's stuff for her own use and taken it on a train journey without her friend's knowledge. In that case the OP would have responsibility for the items.

SilentHedges · 04/11/2023 09:35

alchemisty · 04/11/2023 01:05

If I were her, I wouldn't ask for the full cost from you (or any cost at all if I could afford it) as you were doing her a favour

Edited

Yes, this would be my stance too. It's bitterly annoying to lose the bag and contents for the flat mate (Id be secretly livid), but OP must feel terrible at its loss too. But if I'd asked someone to do me a favour, I am NEVER going to penalise them if something goes wrong. After all they'd offered to help me in the first place.

WeeDove · 04/11/2023 09:51

I lived in England for years and never experienced a situation where I did somebody a favour messed it up and was asked to bear the cost!!

I did experience situations where one flatmate would SAY you owe me 8 pounds. In my country I think it'd be like my treat THIS time

SilentHedges · 04/11/2023 10:12

Ilovelurchers · 02/11/2023 16:24

So all of you who are saying it's OP's fault and she should pay.

Would you genuinely want a friend to get into debt, so that you could spend hundreds of pounds on a bag and a few items of clothing and some makeup?

You see your need for this makeup etc as worth putting your friend in debt for? Perhaps that's capitalism for you in a nutshell.....

I am staggered. This is so patently a horrible materialistic attitude to me. And yet you seen almost proud that this is you viewpoint and these are your values.

Why?

I know it's shocking isn't it. I got through several pages of vitriolic fury at the poor OPs attempt to help a friend before reaching your post of normality.

I'm imagining all those times in the past, where I've asked friends to help me move houses, for example. Then imagining them dropping something by accident, and me saying "That'll be £600 pounds please!" Seriously? Its simply not how you treat someone who is helping you out, at YOUR request, no matter how annoying the loss is.

coffeeaddict77 · 04/11/2023 10:24

ChiefWiggumsBoy · 04/11/2023 02:04

Not for replacement they wouldn't, would they? I very carefully asked where you would normally buy your clothes from because I knew the fact that you were adamant that £600 was so much that you'd wheedle round that.

Even a single replacement jumper and pair of jeans from Asda you'd be lucky to get change from £30 but apparently a full weekend's worth of clothing would be £60 + the dress? Give over.

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I was talking about second hand value of the clothes. I wouldn't expect the amount that they cost when new. That would be ridiculous and basically profiting from a friends mistake and bad luck when doing you a favour. Outrageous.

KatJarratt · 04/11/2023 10:34

katedean · 04/11/2023 07:23

Bit cheeky. She could have left the bag in the secure cloakroom at the theatre. Your bad for forgetting bag but it is what it is. I don't think you owe her anything. Your friendship more important hopefully.

I thought this was an interesting point. If her friend had said no and she had had to leave it in a theatre cloakroom their policies (at least the few I looked at) say something along the lines of:
"please note that the venue is not responsible for any loss or damage of personal belongings".

It seems to me, as I said previously that she is just taking advantage of the fact she's dealing with a person, not a company. Any company which offers to hold your things for free will have a disclaimer that those items are still your responsibility, left with them AT YOUR OWN RISK and the situation should be exactly the same with her friend.

She didn't receive any payment for taking the bag and I bet her flatmate would say the reason she asked her was that the cloakrooms have this policy and she didn't want to risk leaving her valuables. She is just taking advantage and trying to pass all of that risk onto an unpaid friend.

She also sounds like she's too much of a princess to want to have to lug her own case across London as it might have spoiled her designer look.

If she insists her friend is liable for the entire amount, a) I believe she is wrong and b) her friend should work out how much she needs to deduct for the carriage fee and stress caused to her by this situation. Her flatmate is just using her as she did when she asked her to take it.

Personally I don't think that's what a friend does and if she won't come to a better compromise I would walk away, move out if you can because she sounds like she is and will continue to be quite a toxic force in the OP's life.

The OP hasn't said "it's your problem" but the flatmate is telling her 'friend' that it's her problem to find what (to her at least) is a huge amount of money she doesn't have. She is acting as judge and jury over who owes what and manipulating and using her friend's guilt.

If she is so adamant the friend owes her for the entire thing let her take it to a lawyer and see what they say.

Harperhan · 04/11/2023 10:41

It sounds like your friend needs to claim on insurance if she has it. For those saying £600 seems a lot you need to think of the value of things. My Ted Baker overnight bag would be £200, a pair of shoes probably £70-£100. Then clothes and toiletries could easily make up the remainder.

Beveren · 04/11/2023 10:47

Harperhan · 04/11/2023 10:41

It sounds like your friend needs to claim on insurance if she has it. For those saying £600 seems a lot you need to think of the value of things. My Ted Baker overnight bag would be £200, a pair of shoes probably £70-£100. Then clothes and toiletries could easily make up the remainder.

Is that what you paid for them when new? If you've had some use out of them you couldn't expect to reclaim the new value. Their second hand value would be very low.

MetalFences · 04/11/2023 10:49

Is that what you paid for them when new? If you've had some use out of them you couldn't expect to reclaim the new value. Their second hand value would be very low.

Have you read any of the more than five hundred posts? This has been debated numerous times now.

notlucreziaborgia · 04/11/2023 11:10

KatJarratt · 04/11/2023 10:34

I thought this was an interesting point. If her friend had said no and she had had to leave it in a theatre cloakroom their policies (at least the few I looked at) say something along the lines of:
"please note that the venue is not responsible for any loss or damage of personal belongings".

It seems to me, as I said previously that she is just taking advantage of the fact she's dealing with a person, not a company. Any company which offers to hold your things for free will have a disclaimer that those items are still your responsibility, left with them AT YOUR OWN RISK and the situation should be exactly the same with her friend.

She didn't receive any payment for taking the bag and I bet her flatmate would say the reason she asked her was that the cloakrooms have this policy and she didn't want to risk leaving her valuables. She is just taking advantage and trying to pass all of that risk onto an unpaid friend.

She also sounds like she's too much of a princess to want to have to lug her own case across London as it might have spoiled her designer look.

If she insists her friend is liable for the entire amount, a) I believe she is wrong and b) her friend should work out how much she needs to deduct for the carriage fee and stress caused to her by this situation. Her flatmate is just using her as she did when she asked her to take it.

Personally I don't think that's what a friend does and if she won't come to a better compromise I would walk away, move out if you can because she sounds like she is and will continue to be quite a toxic force in the OP's life.

The OP hasn't said "it's your problem" but the flatmate is telling her 'friend' that it's her problem to find what (to her at least) is a huge amount of money she doesn't have. She is acting as judge and jury over who owes what and manipulating and using her friend's guilt.

If she is so adamant the friend owes her for the entire thing let her take it to a lawyer and see what they say.

Show quote history

it’s not particularly interesting, given that isn’t what happened. You can pull out a thousand different scenarios about what could have happened, but the only one that matters is what actually did happen.

The friend asked OP to do her a favour. OP agreed (she could have declined, or negotiated payment if she wanted to), and assumed responsibility for the bag. Unfortunately OP was admittedly careless and lost the bag. Legally, OP could indeed find herself liable if the friend took your advice and spoke to a solicitor.

“As a general rule if a person who agrees to take responsibility for the goods of others can show that they have taken reasonable care of them, they will not be held liable for their being lost, stolen or damaged.”

“If there is no contract, the person looking after the goods must still look after them as if they were their own. The standard of care is lower than if there had been a contract.”

https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/scotland/consumer/somethings-gone-wrong-with-a-purchase/lost-found-and-uncollected-goods/#:~:text=While%20you%20are%20in%20possession,would%20take%20care%20of%20them.

OP walked off with her own bag, and left her friends. While there may not have been a contract, there was still a standard of care OP was responsible for meeting.

I’m not sure why you’re painting the friend as a spoiled rich bitch that didn’t want to spoil her designer look, but I suppose it does demonstrate the underlying sentiment of a lot of this thread.