John Lewis: never mind your Christmas advert, I’d just be pleased with some customer service

[Thosesummernights]

First world issues I know but what on earth has happened to JL customer service?

Went in store to order a new bed, couldn’t find anyone on the shop floor to assist. Eventually tracked a member of the team down to help but she really didn’t want to and kept directing us to the website. We were looking for mattresses that could be delivered within a certain timeframe.

We’ve since had on going issues with the order and accessing their customer service team is impossible. They just don’t care anymore. There’s no desire to help or assist which is what JL was known for.

Still waiting for a call back. Chased and chased. Now receiving emails asking for more details of the issue when all I want to do is actually speak to someone. If they are reducing face to face or even phone service then I’d rather go elsewhere and not pay the price tickets.

It’s the quick buck mentality, running everything on a shoestring boosting profits at the detriment of customers, we spend our lives doing companies work for them nigh on impossible to actually talk to anyone, sleepwalking into accepting self service etc is the norm. JL was indeed the flagship for well trained knowledgeable staff, I feel very sorry for most people who work in retail now & doesn’t look like customer service will improve anytime soon unfortunately probably the opposite & lot companies have continued to use the pandemic as an excuse.

I have seriously started thinking I’m going to give up shopping for anything but the essentials and maybe buy more second hand. I’m sick of crap customer service and being ripped off left right and centre. Eating out has also become a massive rip off.

JL know there is a problem which is why CEO Sharon White is leaving.
Let's hope it makes a difference. This is what happens when a CEO in retail has no retail experience.

I spend thousands at JL/ Waitrose each year and am on the whole happy with them. I use Click and Collect regularly and only 1 order out of hundreds went missing and they were very apologetic.

I rarely shop in store but can't identify with comments here. Staff are usually helpful.

I do not like their Helpline. It used to be based in Glasgow - so not sure why people are saying overseas.

The issue is that you can no longer speak to someone in a local branch.
I used to phone the carpet/ bedding/ curtain depts and speak to the floor manager for stock info or advice. That is no longer possible. They need to get rid of the call centre and go back to local service and local staff in branches to answer queries.

A few weeks ago I was in the Oxford street branch and was waiting to pay. The staff at the tills were badmouthing the previous customer within my earshot. I asked them to stop. At least they did and apologised.

I had a very similar experience with my DD's car seat. Not like we could live without it, especially as she was having fairly regular trips to the hospital at the time! I was not impressed.

On a similar subject our very big Waitrose often looks a right mess recently too. I think the problem is a lack of anyone but students or older people wanting a bit of part time wanting the jobs.

I bought a rug recently in the shop. It took me ages to find a member of staff who apparently couldn’t leave the till. He had no idea of the price of the rug as there wasn’t a price on display. After faffing around uselessly for about 45 mins it was finally bought, but he really was clueless. .

Ah yes, Waitrose. Once JL moved in, our local Waitrose had an overhaul and now it’s a shell of its forms shelf. The cafe used to be fantastic! There was a tv and electronics section, clothing, a lovely bakery. All gone now and nothing to replace it.

The issue is with the way 'partners' are incentivised. They aren't partners, they're employees who used to get an annual bonus which kept standards high. Managers might be slow on the uptake about who wasn't pulling their weight, but colleagues seeing their bonus at risk would intervene.
Since profits have disappeared, few see any reason to be nice to customers. I wanted to buy a specific laptop - apparently online only - but the man in the tech department told me that JL didn't sell it at all and I should choose from those on display.
Purchased the item I wanted online and was pleased that I could collect it from my local petrol station which has a Waitrose, but they are no longer my go to store.

A family member worked for JL for a few years and then left very disillusioned. They completely mis-managed their retail apprenticeship and lost all their marked coursework, mentors came and left every month, so they had nothing to show at the end of the two years - disgustingly mis-managed. Family member had to rotate in each department to 'gain retail experience' and were treat appallingly in the cafe, which unloaded Brake Bros. food which was then sold to the customer at super inflated JL/Waitrose prices as their own products! Every other weekend had to be worked, seasonal all hours, early hour starts and shop fittings/room sets all done over weekend nights & all for £8.90 per hour. They left, vowing never to work in retail again. JL was sinking then, so must be even worse now. They say they work as 'partners' all in it together and for the good of the community - great marketing (like their Xmas adverts!), which belies what's really going on behind the scenes - all smoke & mirrors & that was a few years ago now!

I used to work for John Lewis. I don't think it's just the bonus, which of course was a factor. They used to pay well compared generally compared to competitors - towards the higher end of the market rates. Staff were trained well and felt looked after. There was an excellent heavily subsidised canteen and the store had a nurse you could go to if you felt unwell, for example. They also were plenty of staff (to the point I was often just stood about (which i hated! lol!) as they always had one or two staff just hanging around on the shop floor waiting for customers to ask questions). Staff were always in one department even Saturday staff, so you became knowledgable about the stock and the way the department ran. It also helped with staff development as managers got to know their staff. Standards were very high and were consistently enforced such as around uniform, and customer service standards.

This thread is so depressing. I've not been able to shop in store very much for a while due to chronic ill health but used to love shopping in JL. Used to be such a lovely experience. So depressing if it's now as described. How sad. Sharon White has absolutely fucked John Lewis, I hope that someone with more retail experience and better JL values can come in in time to save it.

God the world has really gone to shit in shitbasket in the last 10 years.

@CherryMyBrandy ,thats how my friend described her store when she started, she loved it and felt really well treated. She gets time and a half on Sundays and bank Holidays and she says staff there longer than her get double time on those days. Which is great of course. But she says that ended at least 10 years ago and staff employed since then get basic pay whenever they work, she says this creates a lot of division as some older staff basically do as little as possible and newer staff like the young ones trying to shine are put off by the unfairness. It just sounds such a mush mash where they are all paid differently and treated differently. Every retailer ive worked for pays the same across the board for the same level but jl seems the opposite. Maybe thar explains the lack of effort sometimes.

There's a fairly recent book by Victoria Glendinning about the history of John Lewis - 'Family Business'. You might not expect it to be, but it’s fascinating. Read that and you'll feel even more disappointed that a dynasty run so successfully by one family (albeit a sometimes-warring one) for almost 150 years should now be so ineptly run.

It’s the way the world is going. Make a quick buck and never mind who suffers int he process.

Those 'family businesses' carry a lot of weight. Spent an hour in the company of the wonderful Peter Wilkin, the owner of Tiptree Jam. He has cottages that are leased to retired workers and (told me) that the business will be mutualised along the lines of JL after he's gone. There are still some good folk in the world.

This is such a shame. I would pay more for good products and good service (and so would a lot of other people, I think), but where can we find them?

John Lewis has/had a great reputation for these and THAT was its selling point. That's why people went there. If they invested in staff training and salaries/benefits then they would keep these customers who are prepared to spend a bit more for a better experience - God knows there is little competition in terms of department stores offering good service.

But if the service is crap then there's no reason not to ditch John Lewis and go to one of the many other High Street or online shops. They don't have good service either, but they tend to be cheaper.

John Lewis have become the shop I never set foot in after being my 'go to' shop for everything. The last things I bought from them were really bad quality.

1. A fitbit watch that stopped working very quickly. They sent it away- wouldn't exchange it even though it was just a few weeks old. It came back and was the same. They wanted to send it away again.By this time they had had it longer than I had. I asked for a refund. They refused. I went home and emailed the company who sent me a new one immediately. Cost £130
2. A pair of special edition, Liberty fabric, well-known brand trainers that after one walk around our village shops the rubber on the sides began to split and detach from the trainer. Took them back and they said the problem was 'they aren't really made for walking in-more of a fashion item'. I said I had worn them to wander round a few shops. Refund given but the fault was mine. Cost £145.00
3. A cake stand that when we got it home was completely wonky. The bit you put the cake on sloped to one side. It was pottery so no fixing possible. JL person when I took it back. 'Well it must have been like that when you bought it. Did you not notice?' Patently not or I wouldn't have bought it. They did refund it. Cost £40.00

And then the no buys

1. A camera that was almost £400 more expensive in JL than elsewhere but they wouldn't pricematch. Needless to say we didn't buy it from JL who seemed to think it was entirely reasonable that they were charging £400 more. Why would we buy it from them? £1230 JL, £849 in very good online camera shop.
2. A rug that we saw in JL for almost £300 more than online. JL would not pricematch. Why would we payJL £1200 when we could pay £900 for the same rug?

John Lewis is very expensive, unreliable, hard to contact and service and quality have plummeted.

My parents always bought all of their household stuff at John Lewis- carpets, white goods,furniture, kitchen stuff, bedding etc. We did the same. You paid a bit more but it was good quality and so reliable in terms of service. I remember when my granny was old, she used to ring up the Newcastle shop- (she had an account ) and ask for 'winter skirts and cardigans and a few blouses' to be sent. The van would turn up with a dozen or so of each - lovely tweed skirts and Fair Isles type cardis and cotton lawn blouses- and she would choose two or three of each, ring up, say what she was keeping. The van would come back and collect the rest. She didn't even have to leave the house or look at a catalogue. They just knew her.

I never go in even now.

@Taxbreaks I haven’t got the book to hand to check exactly but the partnership system was innovative and opposed by John Lewis (senior, and the founder) when it was pushed through by his son Spedan, who'd been given Peter Jones to run - he eventually got control of the Oxford St store too and rolled the system out over the whole company. He firmly believed that the staff who worked hard to make the company a success should benefit from its profits.

I remember a TV documentary about JL some years ago, must be a decade or more, when Andy Street - now Tory mayor of the West Midlands - was the MD. There was much discussion of the benefits the staff had, including a hotel-like place in rolling grounds somewhere idyllic - in the UK, can’t remember the location - where partners could go on holiday. But iirc they were well in the grip of decline even then and annual bonuses were under threat. I suspect the holiday place is a long distant memory now, can anyone on here who knows JL confirm?

Minimum wage has become an excuse on MNet for taking no care and looking sloppy, grubby and unkempt.
It does not cost anything to wear clean, ironed clothes, wash and brush your hair and keep it neat. You don't need manicures- just clean nails, no clagged in make-up, and no jeans or leggings. If you work in JL you are working somewhere smart. A bit of effort should be expected. I don't want to be helped by someone who looks dirty, sloppy and unkempt.

Never worked for them, but the staff hotel is on Brownsea island off the south coast.

I'm not in retail but I do know the following that given the rise of online and Amazon in particular - a department store can only really sell based on following

Price, service, quality or 'an experience'

They aren't going to win on price and at the moment don't seem to be offering the others either. Now I love a good department store- big fan of Ka de we in Germany and we had several fantastic ones when we lived in Copenhagen- here's my tips from those to invigorate JL

Big stores

Don't bother with electrical , sofas, beds etc- you won't win on price and it's not an experience and will cause more hassles with 'faulty goods' and deliveries etc

Bring back a good half floor dedicated to crafts-good fabric section, dried flowers, interiors type stuff, jewellery making stuff, artist supplies - have an artist in residence every week, dressmaker, potter, jewellery maker-whatever!

Split your stores up and have a great 'special occasions' section - mother of bride, bridal, bridesmaids , Xmas dos, christenings - shoes, headwear, underwear etc- all together

Have a great baby and under 5 section- again all together. Good quality toys, buggies, clothes , shoes, books, car seats, high chairs etc - some kind of do this - but not that well.

Have a great cookware section and plenty of showcasing by bakers to chefs in different themes- Moroccan day, Italian day, Indian day etc

Bring in a lovely ground floor circular wine bar- well lit , ka de we have lovely ones and link them to a really good top end bottled and dried goods deli

Give a half floor to an indoor 'artisan ' market - for small spaces for local craftspeople- jewellery, hats, potters, biscuit makers, kids clothes- whatever - section it off so it looks like a market and make sure quality is kept high .

For Christ sake then market all of above- make it feel special - M&S run rings around you on marketing.

From another angle - open a few JL minis in upmarket towns where there isn't a suitable space for a big JL or you want to test the water. Make them specialist and niche- do a JL special occasions or a JL- baby etc or a JL - gifts - wherever you think there is a retail gap in that town

Your stores are often so big I go in with the idea to get xyz (specific) but are often so all over the shop that I lose the will- niche works!!

Forgot to say- put your staff on £13 an hour and actively enforce standards by a good non paid for smart uniform (think British airways) - good canteen for staff- in house nurse, hairdresser etc - actively seek middle aged or older people looking for something other than an office or are looking for good part time roles or school hours or whatever. If you can't pay loads more, make the perks nice and attract the best

@LoobyDop that’s the one. Just found this fairly recent article about it. Seems they still have it (unless it’s been let go very recently).

The price matching they used to offer was their USP until online companies like Amazon outdid all that. They did have a few JL hotels for staff but think some got closed? Like most of retail, they over extended themselves opening more stores/flagship stores/JL smaller Home stores when retail was already in difficulty. The latest venture is into property, building high rise, JL furnished flats for rent, so guessing money has been borrowed to finance all that now on rising interest rates! Their furniture is not the standard it used to be at all and we have had numerous issues with bar stools, beds and garden furniture too. For our family member working there it was notoriously hard to progress upwards and off the shop floor to Head office too a few years ago, so zero career progression/incentives for young people.The future doesn't look good to be honest

@lashingsofgingerbeer that’s just appalling 😳

Such a sad state of affairs. I grew up shopping at JL, my mum was a loyal customer. We used to admire the huge coachbuilt prams in the Brent Cross branch in the early 80s. We also used to visit John Barnes on Finchley Road, Jones Brothers in Holloway and Trewins in Watford. Loved watching the ladies demonstrating sewing machines in the haberdashery department. Happy memories.

Who is taking over from Sharon White?