Requesting time off school and getting denied ??

[Oversteppingonasubject]

Do schools actually have the power to enforce this ?

Been waiting MONTHS for an allergy appt for dd (year 5) - got an appt and it’s 130 pm in a few weeks. For all appts or holiday as a formality you have to request the time off so it’s authorised- school have declined !!!!

The reasons are ‘low attendance’ (dd has had a d and v bug and an ear infection since September) and the fact that ‘the appointment could be out of school time ‘ they have checked with the hospital who confirmed the clinic runs from 1-430 !!! But that’s general info they don’t actually have an after school appt available for dd unless we reschedule for February which I’m not prepared to do !

So we will have an unauthorised absence which is unfair and the school have said with lower than expected attendance plus if I go against what they’ve said and get this unauthorised absences they may have to refer for a fine ???

Yup.

There are times when I say to my daughter "I'm not asking, I'm telling."

This is the same deal.

You've got the wrong end of the stick -this is the child being absent. The OP doesn't work at the school.

Schools are being histerical and arseholes over attendance in the last year or so. I am a teacher and can't believe the hysteria. The world has gone mad and common sense gone out of the window. Go to your appointment. Your daughter 's health comes first, not their data!

@EvilElsa

You've got the wrong end of the stick -this is the child being absent. The OP doesn't work at the school

Oops yes - in which case it's ridiculous to say she can't attend!

Thank you everyone I will definitely be taking her - authorised or not ! I’m just in shock that schools are so strict now !

Yes, I find it shocking too that they actually contacted the hospital (wasting someone's time at the hospital and wasting a school staff member's time) to find out the clinic times.
What the fuck is wrong with them?

Of course they can’t stop you. Do schools not have anything better to do, seriously. Will go against her for what?? Everyone knows how NHS hospital appointments work you can’t just choose!

That’s terrible and worse than the time my DC attended a Book Week event that he went to on the suggestion of the school and with permission but was marked as an absence.

Next time don't ask. When you drop off that morning go to office and say ill be picking DD up for an appointment at xx time. I do.
No way on earth would i miss it, especially after waiting ages. Dc had a dermatology urgent referral in June 2023 For FEB 2024!
Allergy June referral for Jan!

I would go for something like this. Ask to see their risk assessment for causing a delay in treatment and what they will do in the meantime to mitigate the risk of her having an undiagnosed allergy and no epipen.

I do school registers, they'll mark her as M for medical which gives her a mark. I'd be very surprised if they take it further, it's one appointment not weeks off.

Withdraw her from school - I mean totally withdraw her as a student and then re-enroll her after the appointment.

What madness is this!
It's a medical a appointment, it's the doctor that decides your child needs to attend it not the school.

I'm in Scotland and I always just let them know on the day that I will pick DC up at X o'clock that afternoon as they have a hospital appointment. I never ask as it's not their decision whether my child attends the medical appointment

I used to work in schools back in 2010 as a school-home liaison officer and part of my role involved “raising school attendance” 🙄.

I didn’t see the point and did challenge it a few times, although I realised the educational authorities hands were seemingly tied to an extent by national targets.

School attendance was often low for very acceptable and innocuous reasons IMO, as long as it wasn’t low due to things like parent neglect /struggling to get into school etc I didn’t feel it was worth focusing on.

most of it was simply that some kids just came down with a lot more colds and viruses and /or had more medical appointments than others.

It’s absolutely wild that things have got to the stage where schools are suggesting children miss out on medical appointments to attend school.

I don’t have kids but I feel more parents should speak out about the impact of this obsession on attendance figures. It’s as if some schools are losing their concern for the welfare of children in pursuit of attendance figures.

Not authorising absence is not the same as not allowing your child to attend an appointment. The school cannot authorise any absence once a child's attendance falls below a certain point, and it will be recorded as an unauthorised absence. If a child has too many unauthorised absences, the school can decide whether to refer to the LA or trust to take further action.

This action will usually take the form of meetings to find out why attendance is low. If the reason is 'chronic medical condition' then they are not going to act in the same way as if the reason is 'family have taken several long holidays in term time'.

All the responses saying 'tell school to shove it' are not helpful. Attendance is low nationally since covid, and children who attend school do better than those who don't. Schools therefore try to get everyone in as much as possible.

They are a damned sight more helpful than posts parroting government policy and simplistic mantras about attendance like a brainless drone.

Spend five minutes on the Facebook group Not Fine in School and you will find plenty of example of kids punished and parents fined for having a chronic medical condition.

This is disgusting! School actually saying a child can’t go to a hospital appointment. They are insane.

Do you have the option OP like others have mentioned to just process an ‘inform’ that you’re taking her to the appt rather than a ‘request’? If so, maybe do that and withdraw the request.

Regardless, please make a formal complaint. I also understand how long it takes for NHS referrals and you have to take the time you’re given!

The attendance excuse is also bullshit. This is the time of year when things go round! I’ve also been ill twice since Sept. Adults don’t have to put up with this shit at work so nor should kids.

These schools need to be focusing on the kids that are actually truanting or have family issues rather than kids who are just ill!

Surely if the child is in school in the morning they are marked present and are only being removed for a short time in the afternoon so it won't be reflected in their school attendance record.
I draw the line at a school even discussing this with me as regards what's a suitable time etc. None of their business. And l'm a teacher!

I just tell them the kids have the runs on the day rather than going through the faff of requesting days off.

Also in your complaint, ask then to engage brain and point out that NHS allergy clinics will obv not be slotting only kids into the last 40 mins of the day, so some kids have to go in school hours.

I would think it’s because many other DPs do take the mickey so they need to be seen treating everyone the same.

I would write an email in this kind of thought

eg

Amelia has a hospital appointment (after a 7 month wait having been referred by the GP in January 2023) this is for allergies. This is an NHS appointment where there are long waits and the clinic runs from 1.30 to 4.30 pm as you are already aware.

I am informing you that I will pick Amelia up at 12 today to make this appointment and return her afterwards should it be logistically possible.

The refusal to let Amelia have an authorised appointment for this serious medical condition is likely to fall under discrimination for her and is breaking up the fabric of a sensible policy to ‘work with parents’ in terms of attendance. With this in mind I would like to make formal complaint and see a copy of both the disability policy and absence policy - with a view to it being discussed at trust / LA level if not resolved.

Either way she will be attending the appointment whilst we try to get a medical diagnosis.

……

The blanket refusal could be standard and is likely to be a trust policy. You do get parents taking the joke ie first week of September not in due to summer holiday abroad and then off for a week Ill and then 3 rd week off all day on Monday for a dentist appointment and same on Wednesday for a optician appointment etc

and yes every day does matter links between attendance and attainment are very very clear but this isn’t your case.

It is ridiculous. We had this for years with our children.
Eldest medical condition caused no end of hassle. We were always getting letters over attendance and pressure. One day when dropping off other child I explained that eldest wasn't well. Head said in and we will phone if any concerns. I didn't get a phone call but on collection the teacher informed they had been so worried as child really isn't well today.
After all the threats from the school we said ok then let us meet the EWO and discuss. Explained the medical and the child school anxiety and the EWO was so supportive and understanding.

Roll in a few years and younger child had an awful year of illness and then hospitalized for an injury requiring surgery. We were told no school until next appointment. Less than a day after discharge we were getting phonecalls saying child needed to return to school and that other children with injuries attend school. We asked to meet with the EWO but surprise this is when the pressure suddenly stopped.

I get schools are under pressure on attendance. But parents are often dealing with sick children, worries over the childs health, desperately wanting those necessary appointments, dealing with our own work commitments and on top of everything else the anxiety that comes from schools responses.
However, the years of dealing with this has destroyed me and left me with severe anxiety linked to the children's school

Take them to the appointment there health is more important than the school. The illness they have been suffering this term which has resulted in those absences is likely linked to the allergies anyway so the sooner the appointment is had the sooner health will improve

Ignore the school - they are being absolute pricks.

Thank you everyone I will definitely be taking her - authorised or not ! I’m just in shock that schools are so strict now !
They don't have to be for medical appointments.

The general approach in attendance guidance is that routine doctor and dentist appointments are outside the school day where possible. It doesn't mean that families should be expected to arrange hospital appointments to suit the school.

Medical appointments have their own code in the register. They should be recorded as an M code.

Unauthorised absence is a different code (O).

I'd be very interested in how any school can justify using a O code when a parent has proof of a hospital appointment.