Will you be wearing a poppy?

[thingsthatmakeyougohmmmmmmmm]

To support the work that the Royal British Legion do.

Nobody around here seems to be wearing one.

Yes, for my father who was a Battle of Britain pilot. One of the Few. Shot down later in the war but survived.
To remember if it wasn’t for all those brave, very young men, our lives since the 1940s would have been very different if we’d lived at all.

Yes. Both my grandfathers and my father served, and I’m a military wife. It’s important to me that we commemorate the lives lost and sacrifices made - and I can do that whilst still wishing things were different now.

I don't know about "the sneering left", but my grandfather thought long and hard about being a conscientious objector. The only thing that stopped him was the stigma that would have had an adverse effect on his wife, sisters and mother.

When he was released after 3.5 years in a Japanese PoW camp he had no support from the government, they were not allowed to talk about their experiences as it went against the "spirit" of victory. Many times he told me he wished he'd gone with his gut reaction of being a conscientious objector.

@JaneyGee "Who is going to fight for a country they’ve been taught to despise? Just glance at the new releases in Waterstones, for example. Book after book attacking Britain."

Can you say some more about how people are being taught to despise Britain, please? And give the title of some of the books?

I thought that some conscientious objectors served as Bevin boys in the mines, not exactly an easy alternative.

That's really weird. In my experience left-wingers hold those views precisely because they love the country and want to preserve the best of its values and improve life in this country for the most vulnerable. Being able to see the harm that Brexit does doesn't make you unpatriotic, rather the reverse. Ditto disliking practices like Tory prime ministers lying to the Queen and Parliament, giving fat government contracts to their friends, allowing the NHS to fall into ruins, etc etc.

If you now hate the country so much that you wouldn't defend it from attack, you need to look at your own morals and values, not blame other people.

@thingsthatmakeyougohmmmmmmmm "
I thought that some conscientious objectors served as Bevin boys in the mines, not exactly an easy alternative."

Indeed. Driving an ambulance on battlefields wasn't exactly an easy life either. Bloody conchies.

Not until the later years of the war. When my grandfather was called up at the beginning of the war he was actually a coal miner. It was men like him being called up and so reducing the mining workforce that led to Bevin boys being needed later on.

That's really weird. In my experience left-wingers hold those views precisely because they love the country and want to preserve the best of its values and improve life in this country for the most vulnerable. Being able to see the harm that Brexit does doesn't make you unpatriotic, rather the reverse. Ditto disliking practices like Tory prime ministers lying to the Queen and Parliament, giving fat government contracts to their friends, allowing the NHS to fall into ruins, etc etc.

Exactly that. Reflecting on the mistakes of the past isn't 'hating ones country' it's about caring enough about it enough to want to make it better.

I don't accept those reasons

Who cares?

My great Uncle was on Tv as a survivor of 3 battles of Passchendale. My df was in the Dessert rats. DM spent 5 years of her life working on nights on munitions.

They all hated poppies. And would have hated the right wing hijack of them all.

saraclara · Yesterday 13:32
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The far right and the poppy.

I wear a poppy for my grandfather who fought and was injured at the Somme and went on to become a fire warden in Balham during WW2. He wasn’t required to because of his age and injuries but he wanted to do what he could to defend his country which was under direct attack. He was the gentlest, kindest man, who grew dahlias and loved his children and latterly grandchildren. That’s who he had fought for. A socialist through and through, who woke screaming most nights until the day he died in his 80s.

Anyone with an iota of common sense does not associate the poppy with politics but with old soldiers, like my grandad.

When he was released after 3.5 years in a Japanese PoW camp he had no support from the government, they were not allowed to talk about their experiences as it went against the "spirit" of victory. Many times he told me he wished he'd gone with his gut reaction of being a conscientious objector.

This is so sad. And it only serves to highlight the complexity and variety of emotions around remembrance and the wearing of poppies. So many people with their own personal tragedies locked inside their heads. And yet people still judge.

"Anyone with an iota of common sense does not associate the poppy with politics but with old soldiers, like my grandad."

The problem with this statement is that it doesn't fit with observable reality.

Anyone with an iota of common sense does not associate the poppy with politics but with old soldiers, like my grandad.

Even though the money the RLB collects isn’t spent on the soldiers of the WWs any longer? (Maybe a very little?)
Soldiers aren't conscripted in the UK these days, the UK is not at war. The armed services need to look after their own people instead of relying on charity organisations.

I am very sorry for what your grandad endured. He sounds like a lovely man.

There have been numerous wars since 1945. My bloke fought in the Falklands. The defence budget isn’t enough to protect the country any more, let alone provide care for veterans.

The defence budget isn’t enough to protect the country any more, let alone provide care for veterans.
That the defence forces do not provide care for their veterans is not okay. I'm sure you'll agree.

Can you kindly cite where I told people to wear a poppy? Because I don't recall ever saying that.

I'm just shocked and saddened by some of the attitudes on this thread. I didn't realise there was so much poppy hatred out there, other than in NI.

I'm not sure anyone has said they hated the poppy.

Everyone who chooses to not wear a poppy have given their reasons.

You stated I don't accept those reasons.).
But, to be honest, I don't think you've even read people reasons. You've just jumped from "not wearing a poppy" to the illogical conclusions that means there is a "poppy hatred".

Just because I and others have choosen not to wear a poppy doesnt mean we have a hatred for them.
A couple of people may hate the poppy, but not everyone does. I don't hate the poppy, I just don't want to wear one.

It's exactly the same for JaneyGee weird post.
People/students are learning that not all our (British) history puts us in a good light. Quite rightly, we need to learn that some of our history is brilliant, but some of it is fucking awful.

But this does not mean the young or everyone now "hate" their identity.

So you’re claiming I lack common sense as I definitely think the poppy is politicised. I’ve served in the forces as have several of my family and i have every right to my opinion that is backed up with evidence from my time in the RAF and civvy street.

Anyone with an iota of common sense does not associate the poppy with politics but with old soldiers, like my grandad

I had family fight in 1st and 2ww. They hated poppies, and associated them with Jingoism and wasteful loss of life. They must have had no common sense🤷🏻‍♀️

The reasons for the divided feelings in NI are hardly unique on a global scale though, and plenty of people in the UK have heritage from other cultures. That's before you mention pacifists, people who support veterans but not the RBL etc.

Can you kindly cite where I told people to wear a poppy? Because I don't recall ever saying that.

People give their reasons for not wearing a poppy. You say you don't agree with those reasons. It's not a massive logical step that you're at least implying people should wear poppies. It's basic logic and comprehension, surely?

I'm not sure how they decided who would be Bevin Boys.

One of my uncles was a Bevin Boy and that where he was assigned when he was called up (not an objector, didn't request it, just got sent to the role)

Yes, that’s right

It was by the last digit of their NI number, if I recall correctly. So random. Bit like a tombola.