We Need More English Teachers

[nomdegrrr1]

Headline in The Mirror - 'Jeremy Vine posts terrifying video of Jason Donovan almost being hit by a bus on a bike'.

https://www.mirror.co.uk/3am/celebrity-news/jeremy-vine-posts-terrifying-video-31272132

Buses don't ride bikes. Would it have been too hard to put ' Jason Donovan almost hit by bus while (or whilst) riding a bike' ?

It's a national newspaper. Surely it's not hard to have a quick scan before pressing post. People are getting paid to write this.

Suggestions about wording welcome.

Nobody uses whilst nowadays. Language has to be simple for ease of reading online and search engine optimisation. It's a clumsy construction in this particular example but you know what they mean.

Fair enough, but you still shouldn't have a construction where the bus is riding the bike.

I was just relieved that Jase was ok! As a former English teacher this would have made an excellent starter activity - What is wrong with this headline? How could it be improved?

We need more teachers full stop. I don't really think that would do anything to prevent instances of poor grammar and syntax though. Those haven't only existed since teacher shortages. I agree with a previous poster - it is clear what is meant.

To be fair the standard of written English in most mainstream media outlets is atrocious.

Not sure if they bang out stories for their online news without proofreading, but the spelling and mistypes and poor grammar are there in almost everything.

I suppose it's kind of clear what it means, but it doesn't flow and it's not rocket science for someone getting paid to write headlines for a national newspaper.

The standard of written English on the BBC website once you go beyond the very main headlines can be absolutely atrocious. I've even complained about it before, from the perspective of them setting an example, but they don't appear to be bothered.

I suppose I'm being grumpy when I should just be entertained at the thought of a bus on a bike. It's so unnecessary though. It's like a bit of grit in my shoe - not a big deal but I could do without it.

I had to teach myself most of my English grammar (first I went to a 'learning through play' primary school where I didn't actually learn anything, then to a sink comprehensive and finally at 13 started getting taught actual lessons). The people who wrote these headlines presumably went through interviews and had references to say that they could use English properly. I just feel that they should do better.

To add - one of the ways that I learned how to use grammar and punctuation was extensive reading. I don't like to use harsh language but if I was relying on the BBC and national newspapers as an example of how to use English, I'd be fucked.

Agree OP, poor headline. Grammar shaming is not something I would do unless the person in question is actually being paid to do a job where the correct use of it matters, so in the case of a newspaper it should be called out. Whether we can understand it or not is irrelevant, it's totally sloppy writing/editing.

At my child's school they sent a message to parents informing us of a pop up shop selling poppy's and other assorted stationary items.

My gob is completely smacked at that.

As you can tell, I'm all for being flexible, but that's a school. Even if it was a volunteer, surely someone with teaching experience saw it before it went out.

And it's the sort of mistake that can actually cause confusion if it's used in different contexts.

They don't teach syntax anyway. I do some proofreading for PGCE students (most of whom are hoping to English teaching) and "Shakespeer" would turn in his grave if he read some of the common mistakes. A friend of mine moved to London to be a primary school teacher and she said the grammar of her SLT is horrendous. The headteacher was lamenting that "I can't do nothing about it". If the teachers are talking like this then we can hardly blame the pupils.

hoping to do

I wonder if it does go back to the seventies when nobody was teaching grammar or, well, practically anything.

I suppose I should get over it but it's so frustrating when this is stuff that should set an example of basic clear English.

Stick to your guns OP, trying to teach good English is important.

I think that the standard of the average person's written English has probably always been pretty low. It's just that it's a lot more obvious now because of the internet. Before that, how much typed or written content by ordinary people in a non-work scenario would you have regularly seen?

Stick to your guns OP, trying to teach good English is important.

Yes, it is. But if people have not managed to learn to write in correct English by the time they leave school, irritated people on the internet pointing out their mistakes certainly isn't going to solve that.

I don't go around the internet forums playing grammar police. Life is far too short. Apart from that, I know with complete certainty that the moment I point out a grammar or spelling error in a post, a dozen errors will suddenly be visible in my own post. I know that I'm fallible. I'm still going to try to write English that makes sense and follows the basic rules.

I wasn't taught English grammar. I found out what a verb was when I started to learn French in high school. I learned a lot of what I know from reading widely and that included newspapers. So when I see slightly messed up headline written by someone paid to write correctly, it bugs me because how are those who aren't in good schools, with good teachers and parents, going to pick up the basics.

Yes, sorry, I wasn't intending to accuse you personally of being a keyboard warrior pedant. I just find them very aggravating, especially their air of crusading do-gooder, improving the nation's grammar one errant apostrophe at a time! So rude and pointless.

You're right that somebody who's paid to write should actually be able to do so properly. I just tend to chuckle inwardly at that kind of mistake though.

I'm an MFL teacher. We do tend to end up incidentally teaching quite a lot of English grammar!

I hate it when people say "Oh but you know what they mean" - because so often you don't. (OK the bus on the bike is clear from a logic point of view - but so often the writer believes it's clear and obvious...... )
Today at work: "They had to book a second hotel at the airport"
Question - where is the hotel?

I hate it when people say "Oh but you know what they mean" - because so often you don't.

Sometimes, I suppose. On MN, I suspect most of the alleged failure to understand is just poorly-disguised sneering.

@AllProperTeaIsTheft I get you. Most of the time I just smile, and, to be fair, the idea of a bus riding a bicycle complete with bicycle clips did make me chuckle (and I have no idea if the commas are correct). I suppose it just bugged me a little more because something like a newspaper should get it right.

@honkersbonkers38 The attitude of 'it's okay, we can work it out' and 'we have to encourage creativity' did massive damage to my education. It's possible to work out the meaning in most cases, but the habit of lack of care leads to mix ups. And if you ask questions, you're being picky or policing grammar.

And I took maybe thirty seconds to read back what I've written. I still make mistakes but that brief glance saves me a lot of embarrassment.

@AllProperTeaIsTheft I think that it's wrong to be correcting posts on MN, or most places, unless they are really incomprehensible. I reserve the right to grumble about something that is supposedly professionally written.

Sometimes when you spot a mistake, pointing it out can be useful. Ages ago, I spotted a post on Facebook advertising the OP's availabilty as a proof reader. The post had a really straightforward and obvious error in it. I sent a message tactfully mentioning it, was careful to reassure that mistakes happen, and got a really nice message back. In my view, it's okay to help someone out. They're a really nice person and I still see their posts now and again.

Tbh the standard of English on education documents can be bloody awful. Many primary teachers and teacher trainers have very poor English. No one cares any more about whether things are done well, only about how much money can be made - and about their social circles.

I wish I could say I’m surprised. 🙁
The number of people who have no idea how to make a plural of a noun ending in y is appalling. I see it all the time here - baby’s, party’s, family’s, etc. Not to mention that if they actually mean something belonging to e.g. a single baby, it’s the babies whatever.
I do sometimes find it so depressing, especially when these things really are not remotely difficult, and so many non-native speakers seem to be able to manage such basics.
Feel free to call me a nitpicking pedant - I don’t care.

I was at secondary school in the 70's and we certainly were taught grammar. How much of it stuck is another matter.