If your Dd later turned out to have ADHD, what were they like at 4?

[ScarboroughHair]

Had a pretty gutting first Parents Evening yesterday for my 4 year old dd. Struggling to settle in school, can't/won't sit for carpet time, doesn't follow instructions, doesn't listen. They mentioned ADHD (in the context of "it could be X, y, or adhd" sort of statement). They are trying different strategies with her. For me it was out of the blue. She's my only child and I've no children to compare with.

She is a bit different to her peers, although her nursery never raised any issues.
-she's very mentally busy, needs constant stimulation, will play alone sometimes but definitely not as much as an average 4 year old. I end every day I spend with her completely burnt out.
-Not particularly physically busy though, doesn't run around excessively. Is capable of concentrating when she's engaged. Likes being read to for example.
-Advanced language skills and seems bright to me, but poor coordination (can't dress herself for example)
-very clingy, hates being left, won't go to sleep unless I lie down in bed next to her

There's nothing else that stands out to me though so I'm curious what others noticed in their adhd child at the same age. Thank you.

DS was our only DC until he was almost ten Like you we had little compare his behaviour with. School didn't mention any suspicion of ADHD until asked to fill in a form when he was around nine. Then they let loose. I was angry because I had to fight so hard to have him diagnosed (it took 2 years), yet they'd never said a word to me or agreed when I mentioned ADHD.
DS wasn't badly behaved or 'naughty.' He simply wasn't interested in most school offerings, but was hyper focused on anything that really caught his attention.
He was five years old before he slept more than three hours. I also had to lay with him until he drifted off. It was exhausting.
if I raised anything with school, they essentially blamed me for indulging him, saying he was lazy and spoiled. One teacher commented, "He's too popular and too good looking for his own good." Another said, "Lessons are something that gets in the way of his social life." I felt that school could supported us both. I'd have sought help far sooner if they hadn't made me feel it was my fault the way he was. He would have benefitted from earlier intervention, had a reason for why he said he thought his brain was different.
I tried to educate myself as much as possible once I realised it was probably ADHD. I was fortunate enough to be able to move to PT work. I stripped his diet of all the dodgy e numbers, gave him omega 3 oils. I also exhausted him through sports.
After diagnosis he was prescribed melatonin and ADHD meds but hated both. He said he felt they took away the bits of life he loved. He felt drugged up and his mind couldn't imagine anymore. I think the ten year old him was trying to say it stifled his creativity and made his mind feel slow and numb.
He's almost thirty now and we're very close. He's been with his partner for almost ten years and has a wide circle of friends. DS is an engineer and getting married next year. They bought their fist home several years ago now and are hoping to become parents in the not too distant future.
Sorry for the waffle but what I really wanted to say is you are your DC's greatest advocate in life. Schools still often seem to have a stereotype of a child with ADHD, ours certainly did. It also doesn't need to be a diagnosis that means failure in the future. We did support DS's passions. It lead to his career and because anything he was obsessed with meant he would hyper focus, it gave him the precision to make him great in a career he loves.

Very “emotional” and sensitive generally, toddler tantrums persisted for longer than you would expect.

Bright, very verbal, active, extremely well behaved at school.

Never slept well at all.

She was also diagnosed with autism at 8 though, ADHD diagnosis came at 10, so those signs were obviously mixed in (although having both seems really quite common)

I have it. At 4 and throughout school I was very bright and could problem solve very well, but was very forgetful and a day dreamer - same as now! It meant I wasn't very good at listening to teacher, but because I was quite clever and learned in my own way/could get on with it, it didn't really matter at that stage. I wasn't bouncing off the walls. Just had bursts of energy/constantly fidgeting. Luckily for me I learned to fidget quietly!

Very emotional too! I find that's usually because I become easily overwhelmed - I can't process verbal instructions quickly and panic when given lots of choice.

Oh; I have it too (forgot that could be relevant until I saw this post above!)

I don’t think there were concerns about me at 4, a very different time though.

My DD also started to struggle noticeably in year 1, it’s a big jump from reception.

Do you, or you siblings or DD’s dad, have ADHD or ASD traits?

I’ve met a lot of mothers who only recognised their own neurodivergency after their DC were diagnosed, as well as the ones like me who had been diagnosed previously.

My DD has ADHD and is now 8. At 4 she was at school just before covid started. She found it difficult to sit still, and sit properly on her chair, she was difficult to focus etc. now at 8 she struggles academically, she has great difficulty in concentrating and is not particularly academic, although tries hard. She seems able to curtail her "silliness" during school however we pay for that at home, with silly noises, loudness, being a verbal train etc. she has dreams and aspirations but realises she different to her peers, and I feel has sadly now started to lower her own expectations of life. I've never discouraged her from any dreams but have sometimes said " you will have to work hard at school" etc if you want to be .....
I worry about her every day, of what will become of her, at times I dispair getting her to complete homework is a nightmare. But such a kind, caring and loving girl who I wouldn't have any other way

Her emotions were all over the place, and her temper tantrums were to the extreme. She didn't settle to sleep on her own until she was about 8/9. We had to lie in the bed or on the floor until she fell asleep.

She worried about everything, we had to keep the news off when she was in the room. She hated nursery, school and parties. I was that parent that always had to stay and help.

She's extremely bright, and she's always been very mature for her age.

She hated school and hardly attended in the later years. She excelled in English, but not maths. She also has Mears Irlen Syndrome and Dyscalculia.

Every time I raised these issues at school or with the GP, I was made to feel like an over anxious mum. We paid for all her tests in the end, as we just knew things weren't right. She has an older sibling, so we were able to see the difference.

She was finally diagnosed with ADHD when she was 19.

Dd was always on the go, climbing, running, she took her trainer wheels off her bike at four. She could retain all sorts of information if it interested her but couldn’t remember instructions. She was labelled naughty at her first primary school, we moved her and they were brilliant, she was able to move between classrooms with her work, she was allowed to go to the school office when it got too much . That school saved her!
She was always into science so we did cooking and gardening at home which she loved. She didn’t go through the night until she was ten (melatonin).
Shes an adult now with a degree in human biosciences. Still loses her keys daily!

@ScarboroughHair I have two DDs with ADHD, both of whom present totally differently. Before I start my preamble, I would ask if yours is a private school and whereabouts in the birth calendar your DD is? Depending on the answers to your questions, I’d rate your DD’s school on being totally clued up. Honestly, it may seem like a big thing now but it’s just neurodiversity.

My DD1 is at a super selective grammar school (neurodiversity need not be a barrier to learning or education. Shamefully, she was only diagnosed at age 14 and she is 15 now. Although she is diagnosed with full ADHD, she probably more presents with what people regard as inattentive ADHD as she is totally away with the fairies.

DD2, who is seven, is your common-and-garden bouncing off walls ADHD-er; it’s impossible to tire this kid out. We had our CAMHS psychiatrist appointment yesterday and I am assured that a prescription for medication will be issued on Monday. DD2 surprised everyone by achieving greater depths/exceeding in her Y2 report for Maths, Reading and Writing. I was stunned. She refuses to do any homework/work at home and she rarely reads, unlike her big sister. Unfortunately, she has been asked to leave a number of extra-curricular clubs and I still get to do the parental walk of shame at the other clubs that barely tolerate her. DD2 simply cannot sit still, listen to instructions and not talk over or interrupt grown-ups.

Just to reiterate, if your DD’s school is suggesting ADHD and further assessments, I would bite their hands off and ask them to expedite referrals. It has taken me three years to fight for an EHC Plan for my DD1, who not only has ADHD but autism as well as being blind. She is now in Year 11, so her GCSE year, and any help has come too little and too late. If I could offer you any advice, it would be to embrace any help or support in the early years.

Good luck!

DD6 is waiting for assessment for ADHD and ASD. Her brain doesn’t stop and she doesn’t stop talking. If she’s engaged she is laser focused, if she’s disinterested she zoned out completely and doesn’t take anything in or respond to teachers etc. She’s very bright but struggles to organise herself and get started on tasks, then gets upset when she hasn’t finished. A complete perfectionist and very hard on herself for small mistakes. Arks up wildly in the evening running around, splashing in the bath, jumping on beds. It’s exhausting. Doesn’t listen, no sense of risk. Totally lovely.

At 4 she was very bright, curious, somewhat anxious and wary of the world. Didn't eat. Didn't sleep. Either hyperfocused or totally zoned out.

Dx at 6 after her first full year in school.. school asked for her to be assessed as they thought she was bright but couldn't keep her still long enough to know if she was learning (she was!)
Talked non stop!

Went on ritalin..magic bullet.
Came off ritalin for a while as a teen... went back on it in 6th form.

Now a GP. .. she decided to be a doctor aged 4.. never changed her mind and is so hyperfocused on stuff that interests her that she flew through med school.
Excellent doctor, caring and empathetic, but at home she's disorganised, scatty, easily distracted and has a huge tendency to catastrophise.
Total perfectionist and highly highly anxious. Has ARFID and is medicated for anxiety which is crippling.

School was tricky. Teachers loved her intelligence and the more confident teachers loved her questioning mind. Authoritarian teachers hated her because if she wasn't stimulated and was bored... she was a pain in the ass...not naughty but would finish her work and then wander off! Her A level biology teacher told us she would fail as she never did any work... so she stopped attending most lessons... and passed with an almost perfect A*.

She's a phenomenal human being.. but her ADHD is both her superpower and her curse.

DD at four... Non stop chatter, intense, highly emotional, prone to wandering off: on trains, in shopping centres, IKEA etc.. Through activities at a unsustainable pace, not delighted at nursery, worse at school, hated parties...Not great gross motor skills, but excessively good fine motor skills (now an adult and a violinist), funny, dizzy, warm.

@Gilead isn't it amazing that such a small concession "saved" your dd.

That shouldn't be the exception.

@RoyalImpatience , indeed. We sat down and worked things out with the school and they really were supportive. Small school, village sized intake, a headteacher who treated all children as if they were her own. So lucky to have found it!

My DD diagnosed herself at 19 and asked for a private assessment (which we were able to get through health insurance). She really flew under the radar. Although school was never 100% straightforward (she was referred for a hearing check at 4 because she didn’t respond immediately to instructions, and always needed a fidget toy to concentrate in class) she had friends, did well enough academically not to raise too many eyebrows and was always well behaved. But she later admitted she hardly did any of her secondary school homework (yet somehow managed nine GCSEs) and it wasn’t till sixth form she found it difficult to manage both work and emotions.

In hindsight I found both my DCs (DS has ASD) tiring to keep occupied. Neither of them responded to reward charts and time-out had only a limited effect. I certainly couldn’t consider teaching them myself as I couldn’t hold their attention long enough for anything I showed or told them to register. They were like TS Eliot’s Rum Tum Tugger - ‘he will do/As he do do/And there’s no doing anything about it!’

Both DCs are now at uni and doing well, DD with the help of a moderate dose of ADHD medication.

Thank you everyone...so tricky isn't it, the range of presentation is so wide. Some things fit and others don't. She's never been over-emotional or tantrummy and no major sleep issues (although she was always on the lower end of normal in terms of number of hours needed).

On the other hand, I recognise a lot of her in the accounts above. Uncontrollably silly and loud at times, cannot seem to stop herself talking (especially when tired, literally constant stream), endlessly questionning. Absolutely demolishes food, no one can believe how much she eats, but thin as a rake. Hard to settle in the evenings (although sleeps well once asleep). Very fidgety, can't sit still, always onto the next thing (fidget toys seem to be helping at school).

@BrontëParsonage she's at a regular state primary albeit one that does tend to have a high proportion of students with EHCPs. They are not talking about a referral yet, more "we're trying different strategies and we'll see how it goes". But I feel they're on it, I think if nothing changes over the course of the year we'll be looking at a referral. She's in the middle of the year, 4.5 now. Certainly not the youngest.

@BagForLifer There is neurodiversity in dad's family although primarily ASD. I wouldn't have said either of us are neurodiverse although I have long felt he underachieved academically relative to his level of intelligence, so perhaps there's something there (I assumed he was just lazy!).

I feel better reading this thread as I came out of the Parents' Evening feeling like it was a bit of a disaster and everything was going wrong, this has given me hope.

If you get the chance to have her on your local pathway for ASD/ADHD assessments, with school supporting, then grab that with both hands!

It takes a long time, it’s currently 3 years + in my area, but if you get her on the list now then you can still watch and wait, as any challenges in school will become more obvious as she moves into stages where more formal sit down learning is needed.

It might be just how she is though, it’s very young to expect concentration really and they all develop differently and should be allowed, in my opinion, much much longer to learn through movement and play and for that to help with brain development.

If you aren’t seeing problems at home and are happy with her development, then that is a good thing - it might be the case that she just isn’t ready for a school environment or that particular school really doesn’t suit her.

Your DD sounds like my DSD who is almost 4. I’ve seen a child psychologist three times and during the latest visit they have suggested it’s a very high IQ combined with high resilience & confidence (she actually called him a natural born leader and couldn’t understand why I burst into tears) rather than ASD / ADHD but as there isn’t a way to test anything reliably yet she’s asked me to keep a diary. I set firm boundaries as he wants to get involved with everything, wants to do it all himself, can’t play alone (gets bored) and I can’t even use screens as he’s addicted. Scooting or biking helps him as he needs to concentrate to make it work.

@BagForLifer thank you, I do sometimes think that might be the case although when I gently suggested that to her teacher she said (in slightly less direct terms) she's quite a long way from where they would expect a child of her age to be. Not just not sitting but not following instructions like lining up for dinner or in the playground and generally not listening. Tbh I hope it's not a case of the school not suiting her as I don't have many options - private or home schooling are out of the question financially and the small school near us is hugely oversubscribed.

This was my dd at 4 .

Later diagnosed as ASD. I suspect g some form of adhd too.