7 year old frustrated mathematician!

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Maths has always been a strange subject for DS (7, in year 3). He gets good reports on it from school because he can follow the instructions on that day for adding, subtracting, multiplying, dividing. He’s a whizz at times tables.

However… he doesn’t seem to understand the very basic concepts. He REALLY struggles with adding one on to anything. So if you were to ask him what is 6+1, he’s stumped, even though he can tell you one more/less than 6 and can do other additions such as 6+5 by working out with his fingers. He has no accuracy when it comes to counting and often double counts or misses out. He will get it right on maybe the third or fourth try.

Whilst he can do addition and subtraction using columns, tens and ones, number lines etc. he has no idea of this concept in real life, so when he gets to the questions like “Sally has 3 apples and picks 4 more, how many does she have now”, he will in full seriousness pluck a number like 16 out of thin air, or he puts the numbers together and says she now has 34. He has to be reminded every single time that in maths you have to work it out, you can’t just guess. If I said to him, what is 3+4, he could do it, but only after he’s been reminded to actually work it out, or else out come the random answers again. These random answers are not even mathematically possible sometimes, so a question on addition might result in him saying an answer that is lower than the starting number, so would not even make sense for addition.

School haven’t picked up on this at all. Is it something I should be worried about or is it normal at this age and I just need to give him more time? Honest answers accepted!

You definitely need to bring this up with school.

Could it be dyscalculia?

It's something I see a lot tbh - primary teacher here. It really comes through the schools rushing the kids through the beginning of the maths curriculum. Really children should pass through concrete, pictorial, abstract. So for your example of adding, counting out the four counters, then another three. Following this, there would be pictures of the 'apples', then there might be hidden pictures of the apples and finally the sum 4+3.
I'd advise you to go back to the start. Focus on counting x number of objects focusing on one number every time one is moved. Get him to count your claps or pennies dropped in a tin.
Work on recognising number of fingers up and spots on a dice. Move on to putting his hands advice his head, like bunny ears, and putting up a said number of fingers. Add one more while hands are still up. How many now? Bring them down to check etc.
all this will hopefully help with the understanding of what number is. Good luck!

It sounds like he has learnt the multiplication by heart but with low comprehension.
Maths is such an abstract concept...

I would raise your concerns at school and ask them what they have observed.

Also, look at the stamp game (montessori material). It's an excellent material to allow children to work within the four operations, up to four digits.

It demonstrates exchanges perfectly.

Wordy maths problems are always the hardest to solve at his age as they take a high level of literacy skills alongside number sense, so that wouldn't concern me. With the eg of apples, is he similarly stumped of you place real apples in front of him or pictures of them? If yes, then he definitely has gaps in his mathematical understanding of addition.
When you ask him 6+1 what vocab do u use? Do u say "add" "and" or "plus" ? Just thinking he might not know it based on how you phrase it.
It is normal for children to stick to methods that they are most comfortable with eg column method, so it is a good sign that he is confident with some. However, based on what you have said I would recommend giving him lots of exposure to multiple methods/visuals to help him expand the links he makes with his wider mathematical understanding when solving a calculation.

E.g. if you ask him 6 + 5 = ? Then discuss different ways to get the answer (e.g. 6+4=10, 10 plus 1=11, or 6+6=12, then 12-1=11, 6 x 2 -1) and which is the most efficient mental method, then discuss a corresponding calculation e.g. if I know 6+5=11, I also know 46+5=51, 66+5=71 etc.

The website NCETM have great free resources and also videos (stands for national center for excellence in teaching mathematics I think).

It also depends on when you ask him though, how tired or distracted is he? :)

Its normal, some kids find word problems quite difficult. I used to make my children highlight key words Sally had 3 apples and picks 4 more and discuss what sign we should use. At some point it just clicks - telling the time was another frustrating one ( past and to)

It's quite funny as something that seems so simple can be complex to others. Being patient and going over multiple times for weeks helps.

Thank you, that’s all really helpful.

He does have ADHD @FusionChefGeoff so it is possible he also has dyscalculia. I would have thought with that he would struggle with the actual working out as well though, which he doesn’t seem to? Correct me if I’m wrong on that.

@timeforbedmethinks Really good to know, thank you. His was the nursery and reception class during COVID so I did wonder if the basics had been skipped. I’ll try rolling it right back with the activities you have suggested.

@justwatchingtelly i did raise it at parents’ evening in Y2 and was told they haven’t observed that in school. However, I was able to look at his maths books and his writing is so bad I don’t even know how they knew what he had written as the answer! They seemed to have marked a lot of things correct when I would have read an entirely different answer from his writing. I will ask his new teacher again at parents’ evening in a few weeks and see what they say. Thank you!

Another good starting point is discussing what is the same and what is different when looking at 2 numbers or calculations together.

E.g. 5 dots and 2 dots.

Then build it up to, say, 23 compared to 32.
Then 10 x 10 =100 vs 110 - 10 = 100

It's a nice activity as it is less about getting one right answer/task completion and more about exploring number together.

@wafflingworrier and @Alargeoneplease89 thats reassuring about the word problems. He’s really strong in literacy and comprehension so I hadn’t considered that it could be the actual wording. I think I’ll try wording them a bit differently and see what happens. It’s good to know it might just click with him too! I feel like I’ve tried all ways to get him to understand but he just doesn’t grasp the concept. I’ve tried all the different vocabulary I know 🤣 I try to stick to the words used in his homework book as he has a white rose book to complete. It also doesn’t make a difference when I do it with him, he actually really likes maths despite all of this so is always keen and willing to do his homework!

Something like this always helped as well. Honestly it will click, mine struggled horrendously with them and 2 step word problems- now at grammar school doing brilliantly.

He doesn’t seem to have the same problem if there are physical items or pictures, that’s a good point @wafflingworrier . The main problem then is his counting accuracy, but he does understand what he’s supposed to be doing.

@Alargeoneplease89 thats a really useful diagram, thank you! I’ll print something like that and he can put it up in his room 👍

This is great game. So simple but fun.
https://www.johnlewis.com/john-lewis-wooden-shut-the-box-game/p4281346?s_ppc=2dx_mixed_fashion_BAU&tmad=c&tmcampid=2&gclid=Cj0KCQjw1aOpBhCOARIsACXYv-f_N8y128N1JdVXmgoA1Uui4dJixng6maCM6bARzdfJe9aDEs76aHsaAkxuEALw_wcB&gclsrc=aw.ds

@EwwSprouts he has this game, he got the Sainsbury’s version of it for Christmas last year. We played it about 10 times and then gave up as he just wasn’t getting it! He’s a bit older now though so I might dust it off and give it another go. Thank you!

I had a DD like this - when faced with a maths problem she would employ a random arithmetical process and was thrilled when, very occasionally, she got the right answer by pure chance!

@Mischance 🤣 please tell me it got better?!