How to resist the culture of putting in extra at work

[Outofideas79]

I've worked where I do for 9 years. In that whole time there has been a culture of putting in more than your hours. I'm not talking a little bit more, lots. We don't get paid overtime, but can claim it as Toil. I currently have 150 hours of toil, which I basically cannot take and the 'acceptable' is to only claim that for actual attendance at evening or weekend events. Not for those hours you work around working hours in the office or at home. I work part time so all of the above is particularly challenging.

As a middle manager, the expectation is that you put in more as a minimum. This was vocalised by the CEO some years ago. And key members of staff are very vocal about how much extra they work, always making a point about how early they have been in, much extra they worked in the evening or at the weekend, so the pressure is always there.

I've frankly got to the point where I'm exhausted. I have a young child and am a single parent. Financially due to part time hours, I cannot afford wrap, and am unwilling to pay for it when the organisation refuse to pay me or support me for the extra time I put in, despite constantly giving me more work to do. Last week I worked an extra 13 hours, around my daughters bedtime etc. I've raised the issue around extra work and fought for full time hours on the basis of the extra work, but this has been consistently refused. How can I start to put in respectful boundaries in an organisation where it is assumed you will just put the hours in to get something done?

It's quite normal in many professional jobs to have to work more than your "standard" hours - what does your contract say? Your pay should be set at a level that reflects this, rather than overtime being paid.

That said, 13 extra hours a week is a lot, particularly as you work part time (I think part time workers tend to end up working disproportionately more than full time workers). I would personally personally doubt your ability to change the company , so you either have to decide how much extra you're prepared to wokr and stick rigidly to this (and use the fact that this means work isn't being done as a justification for full time hours) or you might be better looking for another job.

Union membership first, then collect examples of the pressure, attempts to take your TOIL or be paid for it.

I bet they were quick enough to cut your pay when you went from full time down to part time - funny how it doesn’t work the same way when you’re doing more than your hours.

@redskytonights I accept this is the norm. Hence why I've not really ever challenged it before. But I've recently started actually tracking what I'm doing and when I log it I realised it is consistently more than my hours, often a day or more. And as it stands I struggle to get all my core outputs done (or just dont) despite the extra time put in.

I’d love the answer. I have a GP appt at 9am so taking an hour or so off to attend. Despite the fact it’s a legal right I’ve still got up at 6 to bash out a couple hours before I go! Despite boss not expecting it or asking for it 🤦🏻‍♀️

@ohsoso I know what you mean. It's so hard to put in those boundaries without feeling guilty. Sometimes it's as much expectation of ourselves as from anyone else.

@nancy75 despite my role being a core role, the 2/5 of my role has gone to pay towards other non core roles, and now they have no money to pay me.

Why on earth would you work more hours than you're paid? Would the company ever pay you for hours not worked? I doubt it. So stop!

@PurpleChrayne well I suppose I've tried to explain that. There is a culture. Everyone you talk to (I'm friends with a lot of teachers) seem to talk about how much the work more than their hours. It seems pretty widely accepted and expected.

I assume that you don't work in a professional role?

This depends a lot on how much you get paid.

I’ve been in this situation. I don’t think there is much you can do other than to ruthlessly prioritise, let the rest slip and explain you don’t have capacity.

Whether or not you do this depends how you feel your company would react. Mine is strange in that there is this unwritten “expectation” of extra hours but in practice nothing really happens to those who don’t do them i.e. you’d never get fired for refusing to work the extra hours. But there’s no doubt it has a negative impact on your promotion prospects and overall reputation. However, I was burnt out and past caring about things like that.

Do you manage people yourself? If so, do you expect them to work extra hours?

My full time is 35k. 3/5 of this. So no. I'm not.

Look up Quiet Quitting, it is a brilliantly simple idea.

it’s about changing mindset, and knowing your value. Calculate your hourly rate with all the extra hours and realise you are actually worth a lot more per hour.
And if the rate drops below minimum wage, you really do have a serious problem

On that salary there is absolutely no way you should be doing significant unpaid overtime, that’s outrageous. What sector is this?

I thought you were going to say 80k.

I left 2 jobs because of the exact issues.

First one was 9-5 , 4 days a week... exept they expected you to stay on in the evening. I was the only one leaving on time due to DC ...

Second one was a bit different, we had 1 hour for lunch, and as it was just around the corner from where I lived, I usually went home. I also Had a meeting with my boss, where he said among other things that it was noted that I tend to go out during lunchtime and home on time ... I should consider my colleagues who stay behind and pick up any extra work.

Both were office bases jobs- I don't work in an office anymore ....

@bluepurpleangel public sector. Lots of work, no money.

Tbh I would move jobs to somewhere that didn't have this culture.

Where you currently are, they are not going to change, so your choices are to work more or lose the respect of your colleagues/ manager.

I could not work in that culture. So I don't.

The culture of working extra hours with no pay is encouraged by companies for obvious reasons - free labour.
In actual fact it masks a huge problem of being under staffed and generally a fed up and exhausted work force.

Get your job description and start working to rule, and only your paid hours. Yes it's hard, yes people will question you, but you need to look after yourself because clearly your company doesn't care.

Surely the answer to that is within yourself? If no one asked for it/ expected it then why did you do it?

You let everything go to shit. That is how you do it. You might be the type of person who doesn't want to let people down, doesn't want things to reflect bad on you etc. But you need to be ruthless and just let things fail.

I'm in a similar position. Public sector, shit pay, expectation to do more etc. Our department is going to ruin and our manager can't understand that it is because we have too much work for the staff we have.

I would speak to your manager and HR. If you are entitled to TOIL, take it quickly after putting the extra hours in. If you did 13 extra hours this week, take the 13 hours the next week. If you have been there for more than two years, you are safe. If it holds you back for progression, look for another job.

That said as a full time manager who is also in an industry where doing extra is standard, it is helpful if you communicate your concerns.

Would you consider looking for another job? I know that unpaid overtime can be expected by a lot of employers but it’s rarely quite as bad as this.

@Hellinthekitchen despite the hours I've been putting in, things didn't go to plan (not to shit just not to plan) and issues I feel was caused by overstretched staff and lack of resilience. Something I've vocally warned about. And I still got bollocked.

Join a union, how long have you worked there @Outofideas79 or have I missed that?