If you recruit for top City law firms, banks, consultancies...

[Middleaugust]

...how important are A level grades and what would your minimum expectations be if a graduate candidate did not having any special circumstances such as illness or having attended a poorly-performing school?

I recruit graduates and apprentices in a law firm. We review all applications holistically and in context (contextual recruitment system). Yes, we look for a strong academic record by which we mean ABB at A Level so not stellar by any means, but we regularly recruit people with lower grades.

More important is the ability to articulate why law, why the firm and your transferable skills.

I am a huge believer in we can teach people the technical skills, but we cannot make them human.

I'm just wondering whether a candidate with say AAB or AAA would get a look in vs all the A star people?

Investment banking, I work in graduate recruitment, we are looking at AAA and First/Upper Second from RG+. Not really any mitigating circumstances tbh.

DH interviewed for a senior job in a tech company. He's worked in tech for 25 yr and works for a tier 1 FS institution in a complex area of IT. He has a degree and a masters.

He was asked for his A level results "because it's a real thing here". He struggled to remember the subjects never mind the grades but knew he hadn't done a maths a level and it was clear the interview was dead in the water. Sees it as a lucky escape tbh!

I worked for one of the places that you listed and the graduates recruited were all Russell Group/Oxbridge. The focus was on the university and quality of degree rather than A Levels. But, having said that, they would not have got into the top universities without very good A Level grades.

Yes exactly - it’s unlikely anyone would be reading Economics at Bath (to quote a pp) with poor a-levels anyway.

I've been involved in recruitment for top tier legal firms - barristers chambers rather than solicitors.

We look for degree (2.1 or higher) at a decent institute. We do look for A levels more generally and I'd be surprised by anything below a B to be honest, but if you'd got the degree I'd probably not actively dismiss the application.

I do final interviews for grad roles at a big 4, ie I get them once they pass an assessment centre.

Don't even ask. Only ask what degree subject they do as quite often if they are straight from uni it's something to chat about.

OP I don't recruit for any of the types of firms you mention (I am and have been involved in legal recruitment for FTSE companies' in-house teams though, I'm an in-house lawyer). I do know a lot of law firm recruiters/HR though (and obviously went through the process myself!)

This is something that I have pondered a bit in the context of institution-blind applications (where the university isn't named). When I was applying there were minimum requirements for A levels (eg AAB) but if you got accepted onto a good degree at a good university and got or were on track for a 2:1 or ideally a first, your application would still often be considered. In some ways it felt at the time that the firms were relying on the universities' own processes to identify where a candidate might have had a bit of a slip up for any reason at A level but still showed enough potential to be accepted to a competitive course/uni.

It's this that makes me struggle slightly with blind applications, despite being very very pro-widening access... because if all the firms see are A levels of eg BCC and then a predicted 2:1 at a non-disclosed institution then I would imagine that application would not get through as the assumption would be mediocre A levels followed by mediocre university where realistically a 2:1 is assumed to be less meaningful than the same degree at Durham or Bristol. I certainly doubt that I would have got the law training contract I did if I'd applied under this system (at least as I understand it!) - I did an Access Course where the only grade you could get was a 'pass' but was still accepted onto a good degree at a top 10-ish university and excelled while there.

Sorry, just rambling and not really answering your question! I think ultimately you will have to look at individual firms and their requirements. I know when I was applying for training contracts I got interviews at nearly all the firms I applied to (from magic circle downwards) but had a few surprise rejections from firms that were significantly lower ranked/regionals... obviously may be other reasons but I did wonder at the time if they just used A level/further ed grades as the first filter and ditched my application as soon as they saw the word pass due to smaller HR teams!

I’m a recruiter for higher up the chain
so not straight from uni grads. I never ever look at pre-uni qualifications.

I am a huge believer in we can teach people the technical skills, but we cannot make them human.

I agree, I think this is going to be crucial for the current generation many of whom seem to struggle to function in the workplace regardless of A levels or degrees.

I have a similar problem with institution blind recruitment. DH is as clever as I am. I went to a pushy private school and came out with 4As at A-level and an A in a separate AS level. DH has 3 Bs from a school where he was in the local paper as one of their best performers…we both have 2:1s (mine Oxbridge, his Imperial) and PhDs and yet there are grad schemes that would filter him out but not me!

I do Big 4 grad recruitment. We want 120 UCAS points for an apprenticeship, but if you don’t have that would consider contextual offers. But it is highly competitive and a strenuous exam environment, so a candidate would need to demonstrate an ability to cope with that.

So the million dollar question is what makes someone interesting?

@StrictlyComeback in terms of what makes someone interesting, we want to know the whole person. It is not just about being bright and academic performance. What else do you do with your time and why is that important to you? Can you show resilience, determination and most importantly the ability to be self-reflective. Why do you want THIS job not just any job? Are you able to sell yourself? Would you be good in front of clients? Are you a team player? Those kind of things.

@Sharpkat I agree, these things are not always a given just because someone has 3 A* and a top degree. Who they are as a person is so important.

I recruit into investment management. I don’t really look at A levels - like PP I care more about the university and assume that if they’ve got a good degree from a good institution then they’ve got the academic box ticked.

I work in a niche role in a boutique company, so no big assessment centres for us. I have recruited good people from lower ranking institutions, if they’ve given a good explanation of their route there.

We score the whole CV according to a points system. A levels are just part of the equation - but there’s a minimum threshold to get through the door obviously.

@StrictlyComeback when I do final interviews I want someone who comes across as curious. Shows that they've researched a bit about what role they are interviewing for (we are not all or even many of us accountants). I don't even care if they are wrong tbh, they've engaged and our department is a bit niche. I want them to show a bit of resilience and be able to demonstrate they can take a bit of ownership. As a pp says, most departments expect grads to do some professional qualifications and they can be tough so a bit of determination is also required.

This is where the set interview format is useful because it's a comparator. However, my team tends to try and say yes rather than no when people get to final interview stage. We figure if people have done the assessment centre they have the ability to do well.

So it's up to them to try - there is a lot of support for them to do this once in btw, but you'd be amazed how many phone it in. My personal favourite was the one who said he should be brought in as a manager immediately as he'd gone to Cambridge and yet couldn't write an email despite being told exactly what/how to include.

I’m in a senior position in big 4 - partner level but not partner.

I don’t believe our recruiters look at A levels, just at degree. Plus we get so many candidates from outside England that it would be difficult to compare unless converting to points.

Once the candidate has got past the Assessment stage and to interview we don’t even ask the Uni, unless the candidate brings it up as a discussion point.

As an aside, everything is supposed to be “blind” so even unis aren’t considered, but I have had to point out that it’s still skewed, as we target which unis to attend for graduate open days, thereby making the opportunity visible only to select candidates.

I’ve interviewed for the Big4. At interview stage, we don’t see school, grades or university.

What I look for in an interview (as someone said up thread) is someone who is personable and would work well in a team. We can teach technical skills.

I also like to see that they’ve researched the role and exam pathway. The exam pathway is onerous, and they need to convince me they can cope; which is impossible to do if they haven’t even looked into it.

I completely agree with this. I am trying my best to say yes to the candidate. I very much want them to be great for the specific role they have applied for, so if they can meet me half way in assessing themselves against the day to day job then that’s a big win (particularly as, in this respect I am their client, and so it shows they can anticipate a clients needs).

So for example “I understand that in this department there is a need to present to large groups of clients in a regular basis. At university I led our debate club, including organising a large conference in Munich. I was comfortable on the podium in front of 200 delegates and I also coached others through how to prepare.”

Similar here at global consulting firm. I don’t work in recruitment but do the final interview round.
Process is recruitment blind so no details of school or university on the application - it’s irrelevant. Academic skills can be taught but ability to work in a team, interact with colleagues and clients is a much harder skill.