Swimming lessons - how do your DC’s work

[Frozenone]

DS(8) has been having swimming lessons since age 4 with the same provider based at a gym (national chain) and is at Stage 3. He can swim independently, can swim the 20m pool (might stop for breath 1-3 times as he’s still learning to breathe whilst moving) and twice recently he did 6 lengths of the pool and stopped for maybe 20 seconds at each end to catch his breath. (To give an idea of his ability).

My query is that he, and the rest of his swim class, have been stuck at Stage 3 for about 18 months now. They are all absolutely progressing without a doubt, although this is obviously my about my child. The provider never seems to do formal assessments, no child is ever moved up a stage by themselves - they seem to wait and move all children up a stage at the same time

Speaking to a couple of parents I know whose children learn elsewhere, they are assessed regularly and children will move up when they are individually ready - not wait for the whole class.

I spoke to DS’ usual instructor and asked when he will be assessed and he said no idea, ask the manager, but as far as he’s concerned he sees no reason why DS isn’t in Stage 4.

As DS is absolutely progressing I know he is being taught well but this lack of following any formal assessment structure seems a bit odd to me. We also never get any feedback on our DC unless we ask directly. The manager can be a bit prickly so I’m wondering what others think before I query (yet again) about assessments and moving up and being more challenged etc.

What do people think?

As long as he's progressing, does it really matter what they call the stages?
It is strange though, Stage 3 is just essentially 10m front and back - maybe the pool providers have got a bottle neck in Stage 4.
I'm a swim teacher - the schools to be more wary of are the ones that push the kids far too quickly through to please the parents. Think one term in each stage type. I'm so thoroughly bored of teaching the Stage 4s in that swim school how to breathe properly, as they didn't do it in Stage 2. Or seeing a Stage 7 with a screw leg kick in breaststroke because it wasn't nailed in 4.

Anyway, my point is, if he's 'actually' progressing, and not just getting the certificates, that's far more important.

Oh oh - just read your bracketed bit, '(he's still learning to breathe)' - defo defo keep him in Stage 3 if he hasn't learnt that yet.

Hi, let me preface this by saying that I am a swimming teacher.

Here are the minimum criteria that a programme following the Swim England Scheme for Stage 3:

1. Jump in from poolside and submerge.
2. Sink, push away from wall and maintain a streamlined position.
3. Push and glide on the front with arms extended and log roll onto the back.
4. Push and glide on the back with arms extended and log roll onto the front.
5. Travel 5 metres on the front, perform a tuck to rotate onto the back and return on the back.
6. Fully submerge to pick up an object.
7. Correctly identify three of the four key water safety messages.*
8. Push and glide and travel 10 metres on the back.
9. Push and glide and travel 10 metres on the front.
10. Perform a tuck float and hold for three seconds.
11. Exit the water without using steps.

I imagine the sticking point is the 10m on front, as this should include a breath (without putting feet down). It is also worth noting that the provider may have additional criteria that they must pass.

With regards to assessments, we run continuous assessments, performed by the teachers. Sometimes they run out of time to do these and have to be pushed by management to update them!
We also move children (or arrange their movement) once they as an individual have achieved 100% of the criteria. Often a few children move up at similar times but that is never intentional.

Just read another bit (so sorry I just skimmed) - that they move them all together. Yes, that is unusual, but within reason, not a bad thing.
Constantly having new kids to a class can really halt the progress of the ones at the other end, as you never get a chance to look at them properly as youre constantly establishing boundaries for the new comers.

How often do you take your child swimming for fun? Or on holidays? That helps massively

Seems a low level for an 8 year old after 4 years of teaching weekly maybe the instructor is rubbish - why don’t you move to a different club. You could be waiting a long time if it needs everyone in the group to move up together (can you image a new person joins and has to learn all the basics again 😬)

Personally I’d move clubs - mine quickly went up the levels (less than 3 years upto level 5) but we swam every weekend sometimes twice for fun with sinkers / balls etc so they are all like fish 😂

I think in ds's lessons they had to achieve all the criteria twice before they would move them. But they do sometimes get "stuck" and if you are "that parent" they will move them. DS got stuck twice for a year at a time and both times I had to speak to the swim manager to get him moved (and then he moved up again within weeks so he should have moved sooner).

Sometimes moving lessons (but staying at the same level) worked as well as it was a different teacher.

But if there is a particularly skill they need to nail before they move, it might be worth practising outside lessons.

In my experience, when they move up (at our pool) seems to bear absolutely no resemblance to the actual competencies- I suspect there are lots of things at play like class capacity etc . My daughter was in stage 3 for what felt like an eternity. She was doing lengths comfortably by the time she moved up to stage 4 and was well beyond the competencies themselves. She started swimming with a club at that point and was getting quite good. She was still stuck on stage 4 for a year but was much better than her stage 5 class when she went up.

Similarly my 4yo has nearly completed stage 2 but they won’t move her up as stage 3 is in the big pool and it’ll be too much for her even though she can meet the competencies. For her it’ll be about her listening and social skills rather than her swimming.

But you do need to remember, that, generally!, the swim teachers know more than you do.

For example, Stage 3, 10m frontcrawl.

A parent may see from the viewing balcony, their dc doing what appear to be 10+ meters of front crawl. Even 20m.

A teacher may see that whilst they've done the above, but they've actually just held their breath for the whole time. Which is miles away from the skill level required to pass. Proper breathing to the side in frontcrawl, with minimal head movement, is a much more advanced technique, which requires core strength, good leg kick, rotation. Can take months.

The kids that get moved out of Stage 3 because their parent insists they've seen them do 10m fc, and can't breathe properly, mostly end up stuck in Stage 5 for yonks and/or leave without ever being able to do frontcrawl with good technique. As the parent then complains their child is no longer progressing. Which was entirely their fault when they demanded to be moved out of stage 3.

When you say stopping to breath do you mean as in standing up breathing then setting off again?

Are they actively teaching him how to breath whilst swimming, he won't just start doing it by himself if they arent teaching it.

Unfortunately swimming 20m but stopping a few times to breath means he cant actually swim more than 10m.