Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. Child-safe in minutes.

Meet the Other Phone.
Child-safe in minutes.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
Chat

Join the discussion and chat with other Mumsnetters about everyday life, relationships and parenting.

Original poster

Are we able to sack them?

29 replies

Bossingit · 07/10/2023 07:24

DH has a small company with a few employees. Employee “M” has been employed for six months now and within those six months has used all of his holiday allowance for the year and has had 21 days off work sick (or other reasons). Since being employed to now he’s only been in work 75% of the time on average.

It’s affecting my DH’s work now as it’s only a small team and the unreliability is causing issues with jobs. I have to say these “sick” days are always one or two days here and there and are along the lines of feeling sick, has a fever, covid etc. Never received a doctors note and some have been because his dog has been ill, issues with family…There’s a new excuse every week. He’s had warnings over two occasions where he just didn’t turn up for work and didn’t let anyone know. One occasion was that he overslept and the other was that he was hungover (although he never admitted the second one - we found it out from another employee).

Can we just sack him already? Can we say it’s due to his poor attendance or do we need to say it’s due to a performance issue (which is also true)

OP posts:
spottedinthewilds · 07/10/2023 07:25

Is he not on probation? You don't need to give him. Reason if so.

daisybrown37 · 07/10/2023 07:28

What does your contract or probation/ disciplinary/ sickness absence policy say you can do?

You are probably okay to end his contract, due to his service he has few rights yet. Unless he can claim discrimination.

HelpMeGetThrough · 07/10/2023 07:39

It's a lot easier to get rid of someone in the first two years.

It's just been done to someone in my old team. Took the piss a couple of times with leave (just took days off without booking), shit attitude, crap work output.

He was got rid of on the Monday morning first thing, paid for the month and all network access disabled with immediate effect.

Interested in this thread?

Then you might like threads about this subject:

Employment advice
Hayfeveroverseason · 07/10/2023 07:45

My dh has a personnel consultant on retainer. He has a small business with under 10 staff, but has to be so careful when dismissing someone that all the Is are dotted and all the Ts are cross, the slightest admin error a tribunal can find in favour of the employee, even in the case of gross misconduct. In other words, get an employment consultant in, it could save thousands in the long run.

ThreeRingCircus · 07/10/2023 08:08

Has he got a probation period? Most are normally 6 months so he may have passed that now anyway. That would have been easiest because he could just not pass his probation.

If employed for less than 2 years he has fewer rights so it should in theory be simpler. Unless he claimed it was discrimination so I'd focus on the performance issues rather than the absence.

It's worth giving Acas a quick call for some free advice and taking a look on their website. They are very helpful with any employment questions.

HermioneWeasley · 07/10/2023 08:10

Yes you can but you’ll have to give or pay notice which will be one week unless he has a contract which specifies more.

TokyoSushi · 07/10/2023 08:11

I work at a very small company, when something like this happened we consulted an external HR company who advised and wrote all of the necessary letters etc for us. Cost about £300 and was money well spent.

filka · 07/10/2023 08:13

Try reposting this on Legal Matters

FFSWhatToDoNow · 07/10/2023 08:14

HermioneWeasley · 07/10/2023 08:10

Yes you can but you’ll have to give or pay notice which will be one week unless he has a contract which specifies more.

Minus the overtaken annual leave.

HermioneWeasley · 07/10/2023 08:16

FFSWhatToDoNow · 07/10/2023 08:14

Minus the overtaken annual leave.

Show quote history

Excellent point

MidnightOnceMore · 07/10/2023 08:17

Yes probably, speak to your HR consultant or get an appointment with one to discuss.

TheWayOfTheWorld · 07/10/2023 08:18

Hayfeveroverseason · 07/10/2023 07:45

My dh has a personnel consultant on retainer. He has a small business with under 10 staff, but has to be so careful when dismissing someone that all the Is are dotted and all the Ts are cross, the slightest admin error a tribunal can find in favour of the employee, even in the case of gross misconduct. In other words, get an employment consultant in, it could save thousands in the long run.

This. There are lots of excellent HR consultancies that can assist with one off enquiries or be on retainer, plus provide template paperwork etc. trying to DIY it is madness.

AlisonDonut · 07/10/2023 08:19

When you have a small company [or your husband does], the owner needs to spend some time reading up on employment law and if he'd done that, he'd know that he could get rid of anyone in the first 2 years unless it was discrimination for one of the protected characteristics.

As the excuses were wide and varied, this doesn't point to any one thing so I'd get a HR constultant in to oversee the process and next time, get better at recruitment and doing something the first time it happens.

There is a standard process for disciplinaries which business are expected to follow if they haven't got one themselves. Suggest using it and implementing it.

TwigTheWonderKid · 07/10/2023 08:20

Why has he been allowed to use a whole year's annual leave in only 6 months? In most organisations new employees would only be entitled to use accrued leave.

I think legally you can dismiss him but have you followed clear procedures and put things in writing every time he has done something wrong?

Loopytiles · 07/10/2023 08:20

the only basis for a tribunal claim with 6 months employment would be things like race and disability discrimination. Would just do it asap, detail the number of days and episodes of sick leave and the issue with taking annual leave without notice X times in 6 months. Would give the notice as per the contract, and deduct the ‘overspent’ A/L from pay for the notice period.

Loopytiles · 07/10/2023 08:21

And agree, the line manager shouldn’t have approved that much A/L!

Electrictache · 07/10/2023 08:21

I'm quite concerned that the wife of an employer is asking for HR advice on Mumsnet.

When you employ staff you have a responsibility to know what to do, what is expected and to have a good understanding of employment law.

It sounds like he doesn't even know what their own contracts say.
What's the probation period?
What's the attendance management policy?

Loopytiles · 07/10/2023 08:22

Don’t think any costly HR advice is needed, the relevant info is easily available online and only basic process etc is needed.

Electrictache · 07/10/2023 08:23

TwigTheWonderKid · 07/10/2023 08:20

Why has he been allowed to use a whole year's annual leave in only 6 months? In most organisations new employees would only be entitled to use accrued leave.

I think legally you can dismiss him but have you followed clear procedures and put things in writing every time he has done something wrong?

The accrued leave point is just not true.
Whenever I've started a job I've been given my leave allowance calculated from start date to the end of the leave year. Obviously if I take leave and then leave, I might have to pay this back.

Ilefttownonsaturday · 07/10/2023 08:25

I had this last year and I got rid of the employee on capability grounds. They were within their six months so they failed their probation.

https://www.acas.org.uk/what-must-be-written-in-an-employment-contract/what-the-written-statement-must-include

smartiesneberhadtheanswer · 07/10/2023 08:30

Hayfeveroverseason · 07/10/2023 07:45

My dh has a personnel consultant on retainer. He has a small business with under 10 staff, but has to be so careful when dismissing someone that all the Is are dotted and all the Ts are cross, the slightest admin error a tribunal can find in favour of the employee, even in the case of gross misconduct. In other words, get an employment consultant in, it could save thousands in the long run.

This isn't correct. The employee has been in post less than two years and so can be dismissed without being able to claim against you.

OnceAgainWithFeeling · 07/10/2023 08:51

HR Director.

WHAT DOES YOUR CONTRACT SAY?

Is there a probation period? Does it allow you to dismiss with less notice if the individual is in probation? Has the individual passed probation? (It is assumed they have if the date has passed without being extended.)

Does the contract allow for deduction of overtaken annual leave?

Surely your policies/contract doesn’t allow sick leave to be taken for other people/dogs’ sickness?

FFSWhatToDoNow · 07/10/2023 08:52

smartiesneberhadtheanswer · 07/10/2023 08:30

This isn't correct. The employee has been in post less than two years and so can be dismissed without being able to claim against you.

Show quote history

Not true. They can go to tribunal if they believe there to be a discrimination aspect to the dismissal. If this individual has a disability which has led to the sick leave and annual leave being taken it would end up in ET.

Poppyblush · 07/10/2023 08:56

Why did you let him use all his a/l??

Pugfin · 07/10/2023 08:56

This is why I'd never work for a small business. OP if your DH employs people he needs to brush up on employment law and where necessary be prepared to pay for external advice; for his sake and for the sake of his employees.

Swipe left for the next trending thread