Another piece of history gone...

[TheWhiteLionisnomore]

If you've ever heard of Redhill you probably think of it as a slightly grotty place between Gatwick and Croydon, you wouldn't know about the listed 400 year old pub with the inglenook fireplace that sits opposite a couple of ancient cottages on the Goose Green.

I sat through a planning meeting today, in 2019 the brewery sold it to a developer, the community rallied round to save it and there were interested parties...but lockdown.

At that point we were granted a 5 year reprieve by declaring it a community asset. That 5 years has gone. There were apparently interested parties and rumours of dubious dealings, potential investors were apparently put off by the price the developer demanded and the deterioration of the building.

So another historic public building is lost.

Of the 12 councillors present only 4 voted, 2 for and 2 against. the deciding vote was cast by the chairman, even more upsetting because one councillor who apparently would have objected was late to the meeting and unable to vote.

I know the developer will waste no time now. At least it hasn't caught fire...

I do think many of our local authorities have no interest in preserving the heritage of the towns & cities they supposedly represent; many seem set on destroying it.

I'm sorry to hear about your pub. I think we can all guess what will go up in its place.

I don't know Redhill, but I love old buildings and hate the pace at which the country is being covered in new housing estates.

You only have to look at the Liverpool waterfront to know that planners don’t care about history and what the locals want.

What was the planning meeting for and how was it lost? Can you nominate as an ACV again? Could the community crowd fund to put an offer in? I've never seen so many abstentions at a planning committee before so that's very cowardly. They don't want the bad press of voting for development, but don't want to use their position to protect it either.

It is listed so the developer has to keep some of the fabric of the building but they will add to it and build 2 houses in what was the car park. It's on a road where parking is a nightmare, (lots of mums walking in the middle of the road with pushchairs, children & pets because the pavements are blocked by cars. (old streets).

We are told that councils are building developments with no more than 2 parking spaces if they include them at all, which is a bugger for those of us who work out in the sticks and have disabled children.

The pub will be turned into a 5 bedroom house, with 2 parking spaces.

We can try, there are 2 successful community run pubs here and rumours of a local brewery that was interested but deterred by the price (it's more than the developer paid even with deterioration of the building).

It was lost because the chairman said he could see no grounds for refusal, the developer claimed they had marketed it for much longer than they needed and hadn't had any interest, I heard differently through the local grapevine.

We are on the outskirts of London so many fields are being sold. So much for green belt.

This is the white lion? Beautiful old pub and it will be a true loss. Stunning building. This is very sad.

Did they consider the ACV nomination at all in their discussion or in the report, and attribute any weight to it? It can be a material consideration so unless it was properly considered you may be able to ask them to re-hear it on procedural grounds, otherwise it's a judicial review risk for them

If they want to sell it (and it's within the 5 years) you'll still get a 6 month moratorium period to crowd fund money to buy it.

Which pub is it, spent a lot of my youth in that area!

@TheWhiteLionisnomore sorry just seen your update. No grounds for refusal on a grade listed and community asset?! Hmm. Given the deteriorating condition, had it been closed for some time? I know at our local authority Cllrs aren't keen on properties falling into disrepair with little chance of them re-opening (attracting vandalism, graffiti, fly tipping etc) so become more sympathetic to inappropriate development!

I suspect it’s The White Lion. So sad

They mentioned the ACV and said it had expired (bear in mind that lockdown meant we weren't supposed to gather together for a large part of that)

The meeting will be on their website, I will have to watch it again carefully when my disappointment and anger has subsided. Many good points were raised and the locals who had come to watch were hopeful right to the end. Developers know the system in a way that interested locals do not.

I used to go to red hill a lot for work, it absolutely needs some of its history retained.

I’m from a small town that has has had a lot of its historical pubs knocked down (not far from The Crooked House) and now there are many ‘micro pubs’ that spring up in old shops etc. Which is great, and they are busy and serve the community well. However, they are ugly and it does make you question how we’ve ended up here 😞

I'm not sure how to do links , but there is a facebook group called Friends of the White Lion, it has a picture taken just after it closed.

People said they were in there drinking one night and the landlord told them it would be closed the next day. No warning apparently so not sure if and when it was advertised for sale.

I feel your pain I know Redhill and I'm not too far away and the same issue is going on here with a very old abandoned pub - I'm sick of the way all these buildings are allowed to be destroyed - sick to my back teeth - if I knew of a way to bring this more to the fore I would - it always just seems to be a small group of people who give a shit - this sounds heart breaking OP

If I won the lottery I think I would make it my life's mission to stop this shit happening!

thank you. the facebook group has a lot of interesting chatter on it. I imagine the developer will start tomorrrow, they usually don't waste any time.

Oh sorry I missed that it had expired. You can always nominate it again but if it's closed and has a PP in place it might be rejected as it's less realistic to think that it would re-open as a community asset.

Saying that though, there's an old working men's in Sheffield that featured in the full monty and had been closed for years (since 2018). It has prior approval for demolition and is in a deteriorating state. It was still accepted as an ACV in 2022! It doesn't mean that the developer can't just demolish it sadly, however they haven't yet. Apparently the costs of demolition are higher than you'd think and most prefer to sell it prior to demolition - which would trigger the moratorium.

It doesn't look like the report is public but you could put in an FOI for the decision record and see what was considered.

https://www.facebook.com/groups/335096897355521/?locale=en_GB

if this works this should have a picture of the pub.

ditto

www.chroniclelive.co.uk/news/history/last-stand-newcastles-old-eldon-24156815

This was 1970s Newcastle and as amazing as Bath.

The historical significance of this area should have been preserved as it would have been a huge tourist attraction

@mauveiscurious Not just a tourist attraction, these places help you love where you live, when they're lost the developers can get away with anything,

Redhill had a grand victorian market hall replaced by a brutalist development in the 80's.
In the last few years the art deco cinema was knocked down, the frontage was supposed to be kept as a historical feature but reasons were found to lose it and then the block could be built much higher than the original frontage. It's still called the picture house! Now the station has lost it's art deco context it's in the sights of developers to build another high rise.

The White Lion was in continuous use as a pub for several hundred years, the fittings were quickly ripped out and the building was left to deteriorate since covid, it would have been a massive investment to get it back into service and the high asking price from the developer on top of that....they made it unattractive to buyers and the council saw a listed building falling into ruin.
Just down the road the old cottage hospital is being demolished, the original out of town railway station buildings are being demolished. There were so many quirky buildings with interesting stories that are being replaced by anonymous boxes.