Would you be hungry if you ate the following?

[Autumnleaves257]

I have lost a lot of weight this year largely by switching to a whole foods diet. The problem is I got to quite a low bmi (18.5) and my weight is still going down albeit quite slowly now so I am starting to get a bit worried. I went to the gp and they were pretty dismissive as all blood tests came back clear. A1c for diabetes was 37 (which I thought seemed a little high given I don't eat much sugar).

I thought this was plenty but I added up the calories on an app and it is only 1200-1300. Calculators say I need 1500 to maintain. The problem is I really feel very full on this diet and struggle to eat more. I have added lots of fat (nuts, cheese, ev olive oil etc) and 2 snacks even when I am not hungry.

In a typical day I eat the following.

Breakfast
Black coffee X 2
6 Walnuts, 5 almonds
2 rye crackers with cream cheese and smoked salmon, tomatoes extra evoo

Snack
Peanut butter, apple

Lunch
2 chicken wings
Green salad with beetroot, feta, carrot, saukercrat, pea sprouts, nuts, olive oil dressing
Strawberries, sq dark chocolate

Snack
Mixed nuts (around 10)

Dinner
Fried Mackerel
Fried Lentils with tomatoes, onion and garlic
Steamed broad beans, french beans, peas
kiwi, sq dark chocolate

Do people think it is normal not to feel hungry eating the above? I have to remind myself to eat now as it is rare I even feel hunger.

I am also trying to maintain muscle mass through weights but fairly sedentary otherwise (5000 steps a day)

I tried reintroducing cake yesterday as a 'treat' but did not enjoy it and felt quite ill after. Another day I tried a protein powder but it just made me feel really bloated and made me want to eat even less so I am wondering what I should eat to gain more weight.

I hope the above doesn't offend anyone as I know many struggle to loose weight but it is equally worrying when you loose too much and feels very odd not to feel hunger anymore.

No-one has commented that I look too thin, my dh just thinks I need more muscle so maybe I shouldn't worry if the gp and others aren't?

Why are you checking your blood glucose? It is not needed if you don’t have a medical reason.

How long have you been monitoring your diet to this level?

GPs are not always the best at recognising and helping with disordered eating, especially at the early stages. Is speaking to someone about this privately an option?

That lunch has a really small portion of lentils and rice. How many anchovies if those represent some of your protein? What about half a tin of mackerel fillets?

Yes I’m concerned this is n eating disorder , the level of control and obsession is very unhealthy.

im of the,opinion people with an eating disorder generally know deep down. Maybe not want to admit it. But they know. And I think the op knows.

I would be dying from IBS

Absolutely this!!

So how do people measure or calculate their protein intake if they dont count what food they eat?

Its ok to measure out 2 chicken wings, no one has called that disorderd but apparently counting out your nuts is disordered?

I have to calculate my protein and I also calculate my calories, I have to be precise, so I count and measure everything.

So how do people measure or calculate their protein intake if they dont count what food they eat?

@bellac11 I don't think most people need to measure or calculate their protein, they just know that it is needed for a healthy diet ?

I think working out what your intake is if you are concerned about your weight either way is a good idea. OP is clearly not taking in enough calories if she is still losing weight even when officially underweight. People have made suggestions about ways to increase her calories and I suggested she didn't do weights for a week or so to see if that had an impact.

Non of that makes sense.

A person who can not understand an appropriate amount to eat, without tracking has disordered eating.

I called out the chicken wings. If op can’t look at what she is eating, clearly see it’s far to little for someone who ‘doesn’t stop’ then there’s an issue with disordered eating.

Most people don’t need to track exactly what calories they eat. They also don’t need to know how much protein, exactly, they are taking in. Even body builders and most fitness enthusiasts don’t need to know.

Eating lots of protein for fat loss, is to keep you full. Very possible to eat plenty of protein or a high protein diet without counting it.

Why would you think people need to?

I don't get the impression OP normally counts everything, but that a) she thought she was eating a normal amount except b) she was losing weight. Ergo she counted to see if it was a sensible diet and was surprised it was too little.

It's no different than all the thousand of threads titled "Why am I not losing weight???" that pop up on here daily. The OP thinks they're eating "so little" and everyone tells them to use a calorie tracker so they can know for sure. Which is sensible advice!

Except if someone has the audacity to be underweight everyone starts screaming about eating disorders.

Yes. And both disordered eating.

As I said, if op looks at the food and is losing weight and can’t recognise it’s nowhere near enough she has a disordered view of food.

If someone is overweight and can’t understand or see that they are eating too much without tracking: they have disordered eating. Which is why they are over weight. if someone is posting about being over weight, it’s really obvious they have disordered eating.

People often talk about estimated values of this and that, what saturated fat they're having, what calories, what protein etc.

People who are ticking along, no health issues, no weight issues etc, wont really need to know specifically what their intake is

People dont estimate very well at all, people think they're eating more protein than they are but fewer calories than they are. You also shouldnt have too much protein, htats not good for your organs, but equally you need a minimum amount, particularly as we get older, so it needs to be calculated for some people, not just body builders.

The fact that we are not particularly a healthy nation tells us that a lot of people dont really examine what nutrients they consume. Im not sure why there is such a kickback against paying attention to that

I think a lot of people are more likely to ensure their pets have good nutrition than themselves!

People dont estimate very well at all, people think they're eating more protein than they are but fewer calories than they are.

This. We're supposed to intuitively know how much of everything we should have, without using tools, and never accidentally over or under eat. The truth is it's actually difficult to know if you're eating the right amounts if your body is giving you signals that it's enough (when it isn't) or not enough (when it is).

I think of disordered eating as more of a maladaptive attitude towards food that leads to over or under eating, rather than one's body being slightly out of tune with what it needs. Which is all of us at one point or another.

We live in a country where food is freely available, cheap, portable and nutrient poor but encourages us to crave it. People who are overweight do not have to have disordered eating at all to be overweight, it takes as little as couple of hundred calories a day to keep gaining weight.

One might ask why the UK or the US or Australia would have more people with 'disordered eating' than italy or spain or France etc etc

The answer is we dont, we have a different way of serving, producing and consuming food, its a simple as that.

Except she was recording her blood glucose levels throughout the day without giving a medical reason why this was necessary. As a result she changed to crackers for breakfast.

That seems to be thinking a lot more about food than is usual. No post on here has said the op has an eating diss order just offered it as an idea for her to think about. Becoming obsessed about eating ‘healthy’ is becoming increasingly recognised as disordered eating that can lead to an eating disorder.

im of the,opinion people with an eating disorder generally know deep down. Maybe not want to admit it. But they know. And I think the op knows.

You might not have, but other people certainly did. Orthorexia was also mentioned several times.

I don't know about the glucose thing, I got the overall impression she had been to the GP to figure out what was going on and I assumed that was why, but I'm too lazy to reread the posts and see if I was mistaken.

My point is really that there are so many posts about losing weight, and people are helpful and kind and don't say unhelpful things like, gosh, you must have an eating disorder OP. But as soon as someone's on the other side of the spectrum it's mentioned ad nauseum.

I'm completely missing the point of this post, and I hope you get your weight loss sorted -- but that sounds like SUCH a lovely way of eating. Those meals all sounded amazing. Where can I learn to eat like that? Is there a book that promotes this way of eating? Everything you've listed sounds LUSH,

People who are over weight have disordered eating. Putting their want and need to eat too much about the health of their own body. And I say this as someone who has spent years, working in the fitness industry’s and then put weight on.

If you eat a couple of hundred calories over each day for long periods on put weight on, then keep putting weight on to be in the over weight and above category and you can not cut those couple of hundred calories without counting ever single thing you eat…..that’s disordered eating.

Just like if you are on the go all the time and can’t see some crumbs of feta and meat off 2 chicken wings with a few lentils and sprouts probably isn’t enough, you clearly have a disordered view of food.

If you are eating very few calories, weight lifting and always on the go and can not increase your food intake and are risking your life by doing so and can’t work out how to increase your calories to at least BMR you have a disordered view of food. You are putting your health at risk due to a disordered view of food

Food tracking is often leads to disordered eating. there’s a reasons the fitness community has a huge amount of people suffering from orthorexia. Because this sort of extreme food tracking is often labelled as healthy and optimal. Disordered eating, disguise d as healthy and optimal. When it’s actually not for a lot of people and it’s not required for most people.

I dont really know what to say to you. You sound obsessed and like you have disordered thinking quite frankly.

Jesus wept!

‘oh why do people say someone excessively under eating has disordered eating you shouldn’t do that. It’s not nice and you can’t possibly know that. But it’s ok for me to say you have disordered thinking. That’s acceptable’

If you put your health at risk to eat a certain way (wether it’s too much or too little) it’s disordered eating.

People don’t need to point out over weight people have an issue with food. Especially, if they are trying to lose weight. If they are trying to lose weight, they know they are over weight and are aware that they have been putting their health behind food choices. So people don’t point it out.

However, disordered eating can be hidden very well by using ‘healthy’ habits. So people will point it out.

Is it the lack of carbs causing the lack of hunger?

Malnutrition causes loss of hunger/appetite.
18.5 is on the edge of underweight and if you’ve lost since then, you will now be underweight.

Whenever I’ve eaten 1200 to lose weight I’ve always felt a bit hungry and it’s been hard work. I’ve always been able to happily lose on more than that though with exercise so you probably are under-eating quite a lot if you want to maintain your weight. You could easily be 500 under a day if you’re lifting every day and reasonably active.

Thanks for everyone's perspectives on this, it has generated quite a debate.

I can see where everyone is coming from. On one hand I do think I have got a bit obsessive about tracking everything but I do think that it is more of a reflection on my personality (unfortunately) than an eating disorder, I have spreadsheets for lots of things other than food and health!

When you think you have a health problem (no hunger, weight loss and find it hard to eat more) and have been to the gp they have been dismissive and those around you don't think you have a problem (DH and other friends/family thinks my weight and eating is fine) you do need to resort to some tracking to try to figure out what is going on.

I made a concerted effort to eat more carbs last night. I made a chicken curry with lots of left over potatoes and had brown rice on the side and had second helping. As a result though I had a really poor night sleep and felt thirsty and needed to wee all night and woke at 4am and was not able to get back to sleep so I am really thinking that my body can't handle too many carbs. This was what I found when I had a cgm, I was getting spikes to 11 and drops to 3.5 after carb heavy meals.

I did however feel hungrier after the curry and I think it is low carb which may be curbing my appetite.

I think the way to go might be to up my carbs more gradually in each meal. The trouble is the advice on minimising the impact of blood sugar rises suggests it is best to go with carbs with a lit of fibre but then I feel full quickly.

I did see a few tips on talking to a nutritionist, I was wondering about this but does anyone have any tips on finding a good one?

Id be ok on that.

im not a huge eater though.

many think they are hungry when they are infact thirsty.

The fact you lean towards obsessing over lots of factors in your life means you are at risk of disordered eating. Controlling your food intact is really addictive and insidious and it can go from you being in control to the eating disorder being in control very quickly.

If you are open to it, would you discuss this with a profession, not just the food and health but also the other aspects of your life that you have spreadsheets for? Is there an underlying reason you need to tightly control everything?

Gradually upping the carbs sounds a good idea, you will need time to get your body (and your brain) used to your diet again. Some of the reason you couldn’t sleep is you have been telling yourself carbs don’t agree with you, so you would have been anxious after eating more so it became a self fulfilling prophecy.

I made a concerted effort to eat more carbs last night. I made a chicken curry with lots of left over potatoes and had brown rice on the side and had second helping. As a result though I had a really poor night sleep and felt thirsty and needed to wee all night and woke at 4am and was not able to get back to sleep so I am really thinking that my body can't handle too many carbs. This was what I found when I had a cgm, I was getting spikes to 11 and drops to 3.5 after carb heavy meals

I think your concern about diabetes is feeding into all of this. I actually do have diabetes (Type 1) and I can’t tell you the number of people who appear on our chat groups very anxious about having diabetes when they actually don’t - and have the HbA1C to prove it. They talk just like you and have to be told repeatedly they don’t have it. They often follow strict diets too.

What are you using to test your blood sugar? You do know the meters have a 15% margin of inaccuracy and aren’t for diagnosis purposes? You do know that that the Libre (sensor you wear for days) is known to be inaccurate at the lower and higher ends of the range? You’ve convinced yourself you have a problem when you don’t. You didn’t sleep because you’re over-anxious and obsessing, not because you ate some rice.

Yes, increase your carbs gradually over a period of a few weeks because you’ve probably messed up your digestion too. Also, although whole grain is preferable, don’t be afraid to start light and have some non-wholegrain foods, eg white basmati rice, white sourdough bread, etc.

Personally I think the sale of blood sugar meters should be banned to all but those with diabetes diagnosed by a doctor. They’re magnets for people with anxiety and established or incipient disordered eating.

When people try to lose weight, they are advised to fill up with plants first, then eat their protein, and leave the carbs till last. I would try doing the reverse - but eat mostly complex carbs rather than normal rice and potatoes.

Can you eat more meat/fish and nuts? If you are working out with weights 5x a week, you probably also need more protein than you are currently consuming. Some people suggest as much as 1g protein per lb of bodyweight, though personally I think that's excessive.

Lastly, I'd suggest having a bigger lunch rather than consuming a large dinner just a few hours before bedtime, which may disrupt your sleep.

If this doesn't work I'd see a qualified dietitian - not a nutritionist as this is not a licensed profession AFAIK.