Can you get flu from a child who has had the nasal vaccine ?

[Seasonaloffering]

My dd can’t have the flu vaccine, but her class are all having it - id read something about it ‘shedding’ and people keep their dc off nursery/school if they aren’t having it in case they get unwell ?

Is this even true??!! It’s a weakened flu strain (or so I thought?) so dd is fine to be around friends who have had it ?

I think because it's a live weakened virus in the nasal spray they advise adults with compromised immune systems to avoid children who have had the nasal spray for 2 weeks. So I imagine it depends on what health issues your child/ other children might have and if they're at risk of contracting flu.

There isn't risk of catching the flu from the vaccine unless severely immunocompromised, as shown below

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/flu-vaccination-in-schools/flu-vaccination-programme-2021-to-2022-briefing-for-schools
Can unvaccinated contacts catch flu from the nasal spray droplets or from vaccinated individuals ‘shedding’ the virus?The nasal spray vaccine has an excellent safety record and unvaccinated contacts are not at risk of catching flu from the vaccine, either through being in the same room where flu vaccine has been given or by being in contact with a recently vaccinated individual.
Although vaccinated children are known to shed virus for a few days after vaccination, it is less able to spread from person-to-person than the natural infection. The amount of virus shed is normally below the levels needed to pass on infection to others and the virus does not survive for long outside of the body. This is in contrast to natural flu infection, which spreads easily during the flu season.
Excluding children from school during the period when the vaccine is being offered, or in the following weeks, is not necessary. The only exception to this would be the tiny number of children who are extremely immunocompromised (for example those who have just had a bone marrow transplant). These children are normally advised not to attend school anyway because of the much higher risk of being in contact with other infections, including natural flu infection, that spread in schools.

Thank you ! I won’t worry about it then as she’s not got any immune issues

You absolutely can but more likely to happen if you have poorer immunity (not necessarily immuno suppressed). I catch a lot of colds etc but I'm not immuno suppressed. I'm a teacher and have caught it several times within a few days of my class having the vaccine. It got better once I worked out why it was happened and opened more windows in the few days after they had the vaccine and did more hand washing, hand gel in that time period.

Could your child have a little bottle of hand gel with her that week?

in my experience yes, this has happened twice when they forgot to vaccinate my dc but did the rest of the school, both times dc came down with a massive virus / cold about 5 days later.

Yes you can. The nasal squirt is a live vaccine and children are advised to ideally avoid very severely immunosuppressed people for 4 weeks afterwards.

Not usually a risk to people with normal immune systems though.

Yes absolutely, infact it can shed for up to 30 days. Up her intake of vitamins and consider keeping her off the week after it’s been administered.

30 day's 😱

Obviously it gets weaker as time goes on, the first the week is usually the most infectious.

Can she have the cell based version as an alternative? From memory it is licensed from a young age as babies can't have the live vaccine either.

It is more expensive for the nhs but is the usual alternative for people with egg allergies, vegans & those who don't want pork products.

Your GP surgery should be able to help. If you can, get her booked in soon before her class have theirs.

Yes she can. If there’s any contact with immune compromised people, get the injection for her.

Sorry misread your post OP. She’s only at risk from her classmates who had nasal vax if SHE’S immunocompromised

I wonder if they stopped the nasal flu vaccine whether illness in school aged kids would reduce as a result.

You all know they just get the vaccine to protect the elderly, right? I'm not an anti vaxer and the whole family is up to speed with vaccines including flu vaccine. But the nasal flu one is not to improve the public health of children, it's for the elderly.

Neither hand gel nor hand washing will make a difference to whether you catch an airborne virus. Better ventilation and wearing a mask are the useful precautions.

Unless highly immune suppressed the risk from shedding of this attenuated vaccine stream is little more than theoretic. If however you are in the group who has been advised never to have live vaccines, then although the risks are still low, you are advised to keep away from DC who have been recently immunised with the sniff.

Co-habitants of those most at risk should not receive the sniff either, and should instead have the jab

I’m sure she will be fine. It’s egg allergy and sensory issues that mean she can’t have it so I don’t think she will need to miss any days

Handwashing and gel does make a difference according to large medical organisations like the NHS, CDC etc

They give it as advice - and of course it is A Good Thing against some pathogens.

But can you point me to a single piece of actual evidence to show how hand-washing/gel prevents airborne transmission?

For any airborne pathogen, not just covid?

You all know they just get the vaccine to protect the elderly, right?

Children are the second most likely group to be hospitalised with flu (elderly are the first). The flu vaccine protects children from this by lessening their chances of catching it in the first place and reducing their risk of complications, including being hospitalised, if they do. Protecting others is a secondary benefit but the more people who are vaccinated, the less it transmits which benefits us all.

Hand washing, etc lowers your risk of catching it as flu can live on hard surfaces. Yes, it's airborne but if you're not in close proximity then you might not catch it but you could catch it by touching a contaminated surface hence hand washing. For example, I work in a school. If I'm not working in close proximity to the children and we have good ventilation in the room then I might avoid catching it that way but if Little Timmy wipes his nose on his hand and touches the table or my pen or the door handle then I touch those items and then touch my face or mouth, I might catch it. All the staff I know are rigorous about hand washing because there are always germs going around school

Influenza is not significantly transmitted by fomites

Plenty of evidence online if you care to take a look.

I agree there's plenty of evidence.

It does not however support that fomites are a significant route of infection for influenza (do remember that establishing the presence of fomites is not synonymous with them playing a significant role)

Influenza is overwhemingly spread by airborne transmission by aerosol. CDC: "Most experts think that flu viruses spread mainly by droplets made when people with flu cough, sneeze, or talk"

BTW, in addition to influenza, the CDC now also says "COVID-19 spreads when an infected person breathes out droplets and very small particles that contain the virus. These droplets and particles can be breathed in by other people or land on their eyes, noses, or mouth. In some circumstances, they may contaminate surfaces they touch" - note again that contaminated surfaces simply means that it has been found on surfaces, not that it's a significant route of transmission.

(OTOH CDC lists contact with contaminated surfaces as a driver for other diseases eg noro so of course it's a good thing to be doing).