Has society changed?

[Paintingonthewall12]

Thinking from another thread has British society changed from 30 years ago?

Are grandparents less likely help family when needed? Are adult children less likely to help parents when needed? Neighbours / friends too?

Someone also commented it’s more a British trend and other cultures / countries have a better “village” mentality.

Ive seen lots of posts that people don’t have to help, even family it’s their choice but I find this really sad, that people can’t call their parents to help with childcare when going for an operation.

Has it really changed that much in 30-50 years?

Anyone not British or first / second generation British around?

Only reason I ask is because I have a few friends who are and they all have a better villages than anyone I know. Their dad will call and they help with diy at the weekend. Someone needs a babysitter, an aunt jumps in. Mum needs help cooking for a large family meal and a few people come round to help prep.

Just wondering if this is normal or if I just have some lovely friends?

I don't think people are less kind, but I think there have been shifts which affect this stuff. More kids going to uni/more 'social mobility' = people more likely to have their own family in a different area to where they grew up. Increased financial pressure = two parents working, grandparents retiring later. Having kids later in life = grandparents older. Increased connections online = less likely to seek out casual friendships/chats with neighbours etc. All of that has an impact on the practicalities of helping others, even if the will is there. Sadly.

It obviously depends on the family but my parents look after my children every week (one full day and a pick up). We're really close and enjoy each other's company. I was born in the early eighties and saw my parents struggle to raise my siblings and I as they lived so far from my grandparents. DH and I made a conscious decision to live close to family for the support.

I would say this is quite normal for those with parents who live close by.

@Torganer i would say it isn’t that common. Especially the multiple posts from parents asking for help even as a one off and most MN responses are “you decided to have your own kids they are your responsibility, you shouldn’t expect help from anyone”

Which is technically true but it’s nice to be able
to rely on your parents for an odd occasion in my opinion. Also might a raw nerve for me as my mum said she’s done her time raising children and doesn’t want to help me ever.

Theres a mum who is going into labour and asked her mum for help and she’s said no. Most MN agree with the grandparent who is early 60s so not 80s etc. People saying get a babysitter for going into labour (I’m not quite sure how that works with labour and evenings / nights)

I just find it really sad.

@Torganer i would say it isn’t that common. Especially the multiple posts from parents asking for help even as a one off and most MN responses are “you decided to have your own kids they are your responsibility, you shouldn’t expect help from anyone”

Don't take mumsnet as your standard it's basically where people come to let off steam.

As others have said of grandparents still work and aren't available for child care. In the past more women were housewives and it wasn't the same problem. We were lucky in that I retired early. Not all grand parents will be willing to look after the grandchildren but many will. I'm sitting in a cafe at tesco now and across the way there's an older gentleman having breakfast with his grandchildren and they all seem to be enjoying it.

I think it has in that surviving on one income was possible and families tend to live further apart now.

When I grew up we were around the corner from maternal grandparents, aunties, uncles and cousins.

So a strong sense of family/community and lots more time to ve together!

I don’t think MN is a representative sample. Not many are going to start posts about how amazing their grandparents are and how much they help out. In real life the people I know who have family close help out. Mine would if they lived closer.

Are you talking about the poster who was having her 5th child? I think that’s quite a niche post.

is this something you have experienced just in here or have you witnessed it in real life?

My grandparents all lived up North 200ish miles away so didn’t help out with childcare. In fact we were latchkey kids, my mother had no qualms about leaving us to work or go out in the evening. When my kids were small she helped out a bit but after finding my three week old soaked in milk after she had babysat while we went Christmas shopping (I had shown her how to put the bottle together but she obviously couldn’t) I never trusted her again. However I have been and remain very active in caring for my grandchildren, they stay over regularly when my son works. My ex DIL also asks me to have them when she is stuck. I couldn’t imagine not wanting to help, because I just love being around them.

1950s born, into a naval family. We moved around a bit but less than army families, and of course families don't go to sea, so dad was gone for 18 months at a time. Grandparents were a long way away.

In our generation, we've moved and lived all over the world, so our families were not close enough to be helpful with childcare. But now my DSis/DBIL and niece and her small kids live in the same town, help out with pickups and sick days, so see the GC several times a week.

The individualistic nature/lack of community mindedness is a big factor. I get flamed for this opinion but I also feel the same way about elderly care. My view is that if your parents have been decent/good then they should be able to expect care from you as they age (to some degree, not talking extreme medical or 24/7).

If you've watched the Live to 100-Blue zones docu on Netflix and read any of the research they used it's quite interesting to see how family/community factors massively in health and well being. Obvs it could be correlation and not causation but it's interesting nontheless

My view is that if your parents have been decent/good then they should be able to expect care from you as they age (to some degree, not talking extreme medical or 24/7).

My parents expectation that I would look after them as I aged almost broke me. They got to a certain age (70, so not very old on reflection) and then handed over all responsibility to me. Everything from tending their garden to driving them to medical appointments - the didn't look after their own health and became sicker and sicker.

I now see several friends almost on their knees with the ongoing caring, mostly alongside careers and raising their own family.

When you're 50 and your 75 year old parent becomes a dependent that is a big demand that could possible be on your shoulders for another 25 years, by which time you will be 75.

It is very, very hard and not something most people fully understand until you're in a board meeting and your dad calls (for the third time that day) for a chat and to ask how to wash a dressing gown.

YES.

When I was at school in the 1990s (local rough comp) I didn’t know anyone whose mum worked. Now I only know one mum who is a housewife. So that’s a big change in terms of upbringing of children, and of taxes raised.

WW2 was still in living memory, and with that, there was an awareness that mob mentality leads to terrible things and that most of us in certain circumstances could be led down very dark paths. The rise of the Nazis was preceded a couple of decades earlier by a fashion for strict/ heartless parenting and schooling in Germany. This had not yet been forgotten, and there was a drive in schools to teach soft skills and bring up mentally stable adults who knew war is always horrific. Subjects like PE art music and drama were valued not because they were useful in jobs, but because doing them makes people nicer and healthier basically. But a series of idiots in charge of Education has led to constant pressure and exams and stress. Schools are not safe places and they are not creating the type of adults who will prevent future wars - quite the opposite.

Biggest change is the internet. Home is no longer a refuge from work but just another location where your employer can harass you at all hours and children are constantly told in their homes “Shhh daddy is on a zoom call.”

Oh and the NHS worked. Mothers got two weeks in hospital after giving birth, to rest and learn how to look after the baby. GP appointments were same day or next day, urgent surgeries were done withon weeks. It seems unfathomable now.

Oh and Britain was widely respected and hugely popular within Europe.

And hey remember when food banks weren’t a thing?

@SeaPool completely agree. I’d be happy to help my parents to a point but they live 2 hours + away and I’m a single parent with a stressful job. I can’t just drop everything however much I’d like to.

For us it’s not a case of not wanting to help but both sets of parents are still working full time! My own parents are only 50 and my in laws are still working full time at almost 70!

@Paintingonthewall12 I'm Italian, grew up in the UK and yes my family is like that, I definitely feel I have a village😊 Most of my close friends are also not White-British and have similar relationships to their families and inlaws. There are pros and cons though, our families can be a bit interfering and sometimes I feel a bit 'stuck' in my expensive hometown because I have so much family support.

And to be completely honest I work in community nursing and literally have no capacity left at the end of the day to help elderly neighbours or anything like that, I like my own company and don’t really want to be involved with anything. I also spend a lot of time worrying about caring responsibilities that will no doubt come when those sets of parents need it due to me being the only one with a medical background and siblings who live far away whereas I’m only 20 minutes away