Why do so many British people seem to dislike Paris / France / French people on here?

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For the sake of clarity, I am not British and I am not French. I love Paris and visit France frequently, I think it is a fabulous city.

Yet I see time and time again Paris being cited as the worst place people have ever been etc. And I wondered why there's such an animosity towards it. Is it historical? A sort of general 'not getting on with the neighbours' type of thing.

Because I honestly don't recognise some of the descriptions of Paris that I read here - 'filthy, unsafe, smells of wee, full of rude people, etc'

It's baffling and I'm curious about it.

I've lived in Paris and absolutely loved it and I visit frequently and always have a good time there.

On the contrary I think most MN revere the French, want to be French and admire them greatly.

If it's not threads going on about how effortlessly chic French women are, it's threads about their great diet and well behaved kids.

It's true, Paris often features heavily on those "disappointing destinations / holidays" threads which pop up quite frequently.

But I think generally there is great enthusiasm for France as a whole? I know I love it and have often waxed lyrical about my trips there, and have loads of threads saved for future ideas.

I haven't been to Paris for 30 years. I have to go next year for a day or two and then will take some holiday. Really looking forward to the holiday part of that but not particularly the few days in Paris.

When people say Paris is beautiful, which areas in particular do they mean are beautiful?

Parisien, tête de chien, Parigot tête de veau! A bon entendeur.

Im French and Parisian. It's a tough city and people have such high expectations. As a PP has said the only way to survive here is to earn a decent enough living to get out of the city as often as possible ( consensus among friends is one weekend a month minimum to not go crazy) and to have enough disposable income to take advantage of the life Paris can offer. It does have so much to offer . There is always an expo, a new restaurant, a concert a vernissage or a show to see. Most of us have unlimited regional travel cards ( navigo) because employeurs have to pay at least 50% so you can get to Versailles or Chantilly or Giverny or Provins for free for day trips at the weekend. Most bistrots are pretty crappy now but "le fooding" will save you every time. Because the city is relatively small a taxi home late at night is rarely more than 35 euros and 15 most of the time which compared to the overall cost of living here is a drop in the ocean. But yep, it's a rough city and easy to be overwhelmed.

For what it's worth regarding French people and how they treat foreigners with non perfect French - I know it's not pleasant and not okay - but I have a theory that it's stems from the childhood trauma of the French education system been more or less based on humiliation when it comes to learning foreign languages. School here is ruthless and English is still ( or was when I was in school, I'm early 30's) taught by the rote - endless learning lists of irregular verbs off by heart etc ... and if you make a mistake the teacher will pull you up infront of the whole class and humiliate you. It's a soul breaking way to learn a language and ensures that only the very "best" of the class succeed while everybody else is just ritually and routinely humiliated. It leaves scars for a lot of French people who feel threatened when they hear foreigners who are willing to try and speak French even if it isn't perfect - as French college and lycée students we are taught that that is not enough.

I used to live in Paris and now live near it and commute in. I loved my time living in Paris but I wouldn't want to live there at my stage of life now (with kids).

I don't find Parisians particularly rude or unpleasant BUT I speak fluent French and I know the rules of the unspoken social code and respect them. So, for example, if I went to a bistro and there were spare seats, I wouldn't just sit down and wait to be served. I would approach the waiter, smile, say "bonjour" and ask if there were any tables available. That would get the interaction off to a positive start. Someone who just sits down and waits to be served, doesn't greet the waiter and doesn't make any effort to speak French (even just bonjour) will be perceived as rude. So a waiter who thinks you are rude may be rude back (unlike a waiter in the US who will probably try to kill you with kindness) but you probably don't even realise the waiter thinks you are rude and think he's just a ginormous dickhead. Whereas if you go through the forms of "politesse" I described above, which are second nature to most French people, you might well have a completely different experience. I explained this to my friend who had been blanked by a waiter and she tried the French approach next time and was astonished at the difference it made.

The other issue which a PP absolutely nailed upthread is that it's difficult to think of another city anywhere in the world that is as fetishised and glamourised as Paris. I'd say that even London and New York, which are often the settings of unrealistic films, at least usually include a bit of gritty reality such as a rude taxi driver or being drenched from head to toe as a bus whooshes past you on a wet day. But for some reason there are all these books and films and Netflix series set in this completely imaginary airbrushed version of Paris where the beautiful architecture has been photoshopped clean and the homeless junkies have been moved out of the way and the viewer gets tantalising glimpses of beautiful people going in and out of the most beautiful art deco metro stations but they can't see the angry rush hour crowds on a strike day or smell the wee. (It does smell of wee.) All this media set in fake Paree where girls who look like Lily James cycle round in pretty dresses with a fresh baguette in their basket give viewers in other parts of the world a totally fake impression of what Paris is really like. No city anywhere would be able to live up to such unrealistic expectations, which is why Paris disappointment syndrome is a very real thing.

It is possible to visit Paris and have a wonderful time, and indeed to live there and adore the place, but you need to remember that it is a real city where real people from all walks of life live (sometimes on the streets). Don't go there expecting Emily in Paris. Learn a few words of French, learn about the forms of "politesse" to adopt in restaurants and shops, do your research about where to stay and where to eat and which hidden gems to visit. Don't just go round all the shitty tourist traps and then wonder why it was so shit and why you got your wallet stolen and why the Parisians were so horrible.

My top tip for anyone visiting is DON'T GO UP THE EIFFEL TOWER. It's the one thing everyone thinks they have to do and then they wonder why it was such a disappointment. The surrounding area is really grim (litter and rats and pickpockets), it's expensive, it's heaving with tourists, and then once you get to the top you're looking at a view of Paris without its most famous landmark in it, through criss crossed wires. Go up the Tour Montparnasse instead, or if you must, the Arc de Triomphe. Don't be one of those chumps who thinks their visit to Paris won't be complete without going up the Eiffel Tower and then goes home disappointed.

Me and DH have been to Paris 3 times. The first time we thought we must have gone to the wrong areas as we did not think much of it. We didn't feel any different the second or third times though.

We are both Londoners and love London. We don't live there any more but go back about once a month. We also loved Barcelona, Stockholm, Berlin, Prague, Amsterdam, Brussels - in fact every city we have visited.

We do both love France though. We have been on loads of holidays there in different areas. We also lived there for 4 years - 2 years in Northern France and 2 years in mid France. Also while living there we travelled quite a bit with DH working in different areas.

We found the French, on the whole, very friendly and welcoming. We were the only English in the 2 villages we lived in and the neighbours were lovely. They were the best neighbours we have ever had. They would give us veg they had grown, wine they had made, flowers they had grown. We got invited into their homes often, sometimes just for coffee, sometimes for meals.

Almost all of them spoke no English and our French was far from good but we managed with lots of hand gestures, using a dictionary or even using a pad and pen to draw things.

I am always surprised when people say how rude the French are and that they hate the English because that is just not what we have ever found.

Some neighbours went to France on holiday this year for the first time. They were going for a month and meant to be travelling around and stopping wherever took their fancy.

They didn't like France because they said everyone was rude and they hated the South of France (not sure why) so they drove into Spain which they loved!

In my experience as a northerner who moved south - the dislike of the French is only in the south. Folk in the North like the French as much as any other nation. So I don't understand it either.

I think every country has a country or countries they have silly stereotypes about. For example my FIL is always making throwaway comments about French people and German people. I have no time for petty xenophobia so am always eye-rolling physically and sometimes verbally - and then he will rightly point out that Irish people (I'm Irish) are always going on about the English. And he's right! But for Irish people I guess it's a sentiment against and old ruler (still petty, and not something I do), whereas with the English vs the French it's like a competitive thing I think. Like they want to be 'better' than them but it's seen as competition between equals. I always wonder what the French have to say about the English!

DD and I went to Paris for a long weekend just after she finished her A Levels. She got an A* in her French A level and yet so many snotty Parisians pretend they couldn't understand a word she said. They're pathetic.

I went to Paris on a school trip aged 12 and never in my life have I been subjected to so much catcalling and harassment- and I was a 12 year old who very much looked 12. It really put me off and I wouldn’t go back.

Well I've never forgiven them for the Norman Conquest. 😂

All I know is that I often see people's attitudes thaw when they find out that, although we speak English, we're Irish!

I've never encountered these rude Parisians. My degree is in French but it's rusty - can still hold a conversation though. On one of my last visits I had a lovely conversation across from the Tuilleries Garden with a lady selling silk scarves. She didn't speak English and she complimented my French.

Another time I was struggling in the Trocadero to get a bus to Orly. In desperation, I asked the staff on a waiting (no passengers onboard) tour bus. They effectively said hop on and we will give you a lift there!

Fascinating perspective, @brisedusoir - merci!

I am a massive Francophile, 2 French hols a year (although haven't been to Paris for a decade; perhaps that helps!). More often than not people tolerate my rusty French which I am always seeking to improve.

I do think we are probably quite hard to understand -- I remember reading in one of Jane Birkin's obituaries she had never lost "son adorable accent anglais" and yet when she spoke, to me she sounded so French and infinitely better than I do despite best efforts 😂

I generally find a lot of what we consider to be rudeness is just cultural difference. And I have met some delightful warm French people in my time!

I like Paris a lot but in small doses and avoiding any really grim areas -

This. Style and Beauty is often a French-Fanpage. All things stripey and elegant and how wonderfully slim the French women are etc etc

Seems iffy to assume ALL French people are shitty or elegant.

I’m French (Parisian actually) and I don’t like it ! It’s dirty, people are rude, I find it very difficult to navigate with kids and a buggy and people very rarely offer to help. Food is often overpriced crap in touristic areas. Visited for a few days over the summer and couldn’t wait to leave. France is also incredibly racist and I am not confortable taking my children there now they understand what is being said around them.

I think this is an English thing, the Scots have a very different historical relationship with France. The Auld alliance lasted quite a while and Scot’s could claim a form of French citizenship until the early 1900s. I think overall, most Scots have a fondness for the French and I don’t think I’ve ever heard anyone suggesting otherwise. But I’ve heard plenty of anti-French sentiments from English media and English MPs.

I find Paris seedy. There's lots of homeless on the streets and it is smelly and dirty.

I think part of the reason is simply because many more British people have been there than anywhere else. Its so close and accessible, im sure many people wouldn't like other cities but they never go.

I also think that some French people can be abrupt and brits are quite sensitive to this.
I have worked with many Nationalities and many others have expressed confusion why brits insist there is no problem everything is fine, and then go and talk about you behind your back and moan about it!

I dislike Paris for the majority of reasons given.

I went to Paris as a teenager and again in my 20s. It put me off travelling anywhere. I thought it was becaise I was British and assumed we were just fundamentally despised - the whole Brits Abroad thing.

I dated an Italian in my 30s who asked why I didn't travel and I told him. He said Parisiens are rude to everyone and not to judge the rest of the world by them. He took me to Italy to prove it.

I had a French colleague who was from somewhere about 20 miles from Paris. Her parents still lived there but never visited Paris because they disliked it so much and Parisiens were so rude.

So I guess thats why people dislike it 🤷🏻‍♀️

Not from me Paris is great

Micky Flanagan can answer your question OP.

I've been to Paris a few times and, while I don't think it's the twinkliest, most romantic city on earth, I've always had a good time. I think it's a bit like London (where I live) in that you kind of have to go looking for the best bits or stumble upon them out of sheer good luck, but when you do find them (a lovely little street, or a tiny park or something) you will be charmed. And I've always found Parisians to be at worst professionally polite, if a bit clipped, and at best helpful, friendly and charming.

On French people, I will say that they're the only nationality where I find much more often than not that if you try to speak French, or even just say a loan word/phrase that comes from French, they get upset/offended at your accent or pretend they can't understand you. Like French people don't speak English with a 'wrong' accent! Personally I don't give a toss how someone sounds as long as we can understand each other. In London I hear people speaking English in all kinds of accents all day every day – who cares if it's not 'perfectly' accented?

For what it's worth regarding French people and how they treat foreigners with non perfect French - I know it's not pleasant and not okay - but I have a theory that it's stems from the childhood trauma of the French education system been more or less based on humiliation when it comes to learning foreign languages. School here is ruthless and English is still ( or was when I was in school, I'm early 30's) taught by the rote - endless learning lists of irregular verbs off by heart etc ... and if you make a mistake the teacher will pull you up infront of the whole class and humiliate you.

It’s an interesting take, but that’s exactly how I remember being taught French!

I like France, and I really admire the French in many ways. However Paris is grim and the infrastructure is shite compared with London. Which feels strange as the reverse is true in the rest of the countries. Just take the relative experience of Gare du Nord and St Pancras stations (although I suspect that the initiatives to improve St Pancras and move the Eurostar there from Waterloo was a way of trolling the French by the British authorities 🤣).

I don’t like Paris at all, but I have had wonderful trips to the Southern coast of France.

I think I might have fallen for the trap of expecting it to be beautiful but in reality found it to be dirty, nowhere near as interesting as London architecturally, and full of surly people.

I can’t understand what Disney were thinking when they built a park there. Parisians are the polar opposite of the Americans that work in their parks.