What would you do about tourism?

[Ozgirl75]

Reading an article this morning about how Venice is charging day trippers a fee to visit, how Barcelona is protesting about cruise ships and also the “overrated places” thread elsewhere, what can be done to stop mass tourism ruining lovely places (both for the people who live there now, and for the future), whilst still allowing people to explore and see the world?

Is it something draconian like dramatically raising air fares (which seems unfair as then it’s like “travel but only for the rich”). Or are there other options? What about spreading out when people visit somehow? Moving summer holidays? Changing school timetables to have shorter breaks through the year?

Encouraging development and exploration of new places? I mean, it’s not like there are loads of new people around in the summer - it’s the same population, it’s just that too many of us are going to the same place at the same time.

Our way out of the climate crisis has to be global & technologically driven.

That feels to me like handing the problem over to someone else. Technology is moving forward as fast as it can. Investment institutions are pouring billions into financing technologies and infrastructure. But it won't be fixed in the next seven years which is realistically how long we have before we are well past the point of no return. If we really mean to survive as a species we surely can't sit around and wait for the Technology Gods to solve it? We have to take action now?

I think Konstantin Kisin is pretty right wing. I attended the Just Stop Oil sit-in at Oxford Circus and asked them about UK only making a tiny difference compared with developing countries. He said it was about setting an example.

For the complaining Londoners, moving to the centre of a world city and then complaining about the tourists smacks of having your cake and eating it. And privilege, given the income level needed.

Though it is obviously possible to live within zone 1/2 and avoid the tourist hotspots.

For the complaining Londoners, moving to the centre of a world city and then complaining about the tourists smacks of having your cake and eating it. And privilege

I've lived here since 1968. Does that entitle me to a little bit of a whinge if I feel like it? as far as I'm aware there aren't any rules about when and what I can whinge about dependent on how long I've lived here and the level of my 'privilege' (another word that can fuck off).

Two really good points here. Firstly, maybe schools should be a bit more chill on letting people have a week off here and there. An expectation that this is a privilege and so you will be expected to catch up on your own time.

secondly, again, reading the “overrated” thread, I think a kind of Epcot centre of the “best” bits of cities, all put together, sanitised of pickpockets (or maybe with some thrown in for effect) and graffiti and just let people go there instead of the “real” thing.

We are just back from London. It was incredibly busy. DD wanted to go the big museums and galleries though and to interesting shops. Where we live there’s nothing. We hardly even have any shops to go to. Going to the theatre in London is actually cheaper than going to not as good touring productions we would still have to travel 50 miles to. If everything in going to be in London, then that’s where people are going to go.
It’s great the V&A opened a branch in Dundee but I thought it might be the start of more things like that.

What are you doing to take action now @Dramatico ?

And how will your personal actions solve the problems the world is facing?

Me: I recycle pretty well - I've seen local government take our recycling and process it together with household waste.

For years now I have been buying very little. I don't shop/consume for fun. I buy second had if I can.
I buy very little clothing - mainly for my kids. For myself I don't buy much, I don't buy polyester, I support small makers & I make my own clothing from deadstock fabrics.

I live in a very hilly area, but I'm waiting on delivery of an electric bike so I can minimise my car use.
We avoid single use plastics etc.

All of this is better than not doing it. It might make me feel like I'm doing something. But in the grand scheme of things am I making any difference?

In the meantime Nestle invent the single use coffee pod & consumers around the world love them. Throw billions of them into landfill. On tv right now they are advertising disposable dusters. Consumers lap them up. What would be effective is banning single use products- No government will do it. So single use products should have an environmental tax slapped on them? Again, they don't do this.

Yes I am exasperated

He said it was about setting an example.

😂😂😂😂😂

This is ridiculous. But I'm sure he feels fantastic setting an example for the world.

Ballots could work for monuments but they don't work for cities. Imagine being a resident of Venice and your oldest friend from uni can't come to stay because they didn't win the ballot this year.

Okay, maybe residents can have passes for their guests. Suddenly there's a market for residents flogging off their visitor passes online. Either you police it and force people to prove they know each other, or you turn a blind eye and the whole thing gets taken over by commercial interests (or worst case scenario organised crime running a new kind of bait and switch modern slavery racket preying on naïve backpackers)

You can't treat living breathing cities like tourist holes with inconvenient residents

In the meantime Nestle invent the single use coffee pod & consumers around the world love them. Throw billions of them into landfill

And let's not even talk about masks. I litter pick locally and I'm STILL picking the buggers up.

I would place more regulations on Air B&Bs for a start.

I'd also be supportive of changing the structure of the school year to get rid of the long summer break . Something like four 10 week terms with a 3 week holiday between each one. This would potentially encourage a spread of holiday bookings throughout the year. Right now I'm unlikely to book a foreign holiday in May half term when we only have a week off but if that school break was three weeks in May/June and another three weeks in August/September I'd happily holiday at either of those times.

I was listening to an interview with a teacher from the UK that had emigrated to South Africa working in a school with holidays structured that way and she said not only was it easier for parents in terms of not having to manage childcare for six weeks at a time in the summer but there's a real issue with some children lagging behind after such a long break away from school which isn't there when they have shorter holidays between terms, so there are multiple potential benefits.

I live in a touristy place but it's particularly bad in the summer. I think there needs to be reminders/education that you might be on holiday but the person next to you might not be. Tourists where I live walk at an absolutely snail pace (I'm just trying to walk my dog and have to get to work). They step out onto roads with no concept that cars can kill them (I'm just trying to drive to work). They leave no parking free for locals (not their fault I guess). They book out all the restaurants etc (again not their fault but it feels like locals have to not live a normal life from June- Sept).

I'm irritated by them but I do understand that my town needs them.

Indeed.

I regularly swim at a local beach. It's pretty clean and mostly litter free. Swimmers pick up random bits of rubbish when we see them throughout the year. We look after our environment.

But on summer weekends many visitors come to enjoy our clean beautiful free beaches. The mess they leave behind beggars belief. Monday morning swims are the worst before the bin collectors & litter pickers come. I'm sure these same visitors would complain about what a shithole our beaches are if they were to arrive to find the beach in the state they leave the beach in.

We have similar to this in Aus and as I understand it, it only changed in the 1990s from the British system. We have 4 ten week terms with 2-3 weeks at Easter, two weeks in the winter, two weeks in sep/Oct and then a long summer break in January.
I am in favour generally of this, although I’m currently in the U.K. and I must say my kids LOVE the 6 weeks then a week off way of doing things. Plus when the kids were very small that 10 weeks was a very long term for them.

The other problem I can see with that in the U.K. is that you end up squeezing people into little breaks even more than we do now. In Aus it works because firstly holidays are staggered around the country, and also because there are so few of us comparatively.

I still think letting people feel responsible for their kids education and letting them take time out when they like, but having the expectation that they will pick up the slack when they come back (much like in a normal job!) would be the best thing to do. Or maybe not the best, but one option.

I don't disagree with the comment about allowing school children to have term time holidays- but unless there were big changes in the way that pupils are assessed and schools/teachers are inspected and assessed this would make teaching even more unappealing. Changing the school year so that school holidays were not all the same would also be problematic- not least because there would inevitably be many families with DC, teaching parents, step siblings etc who never had the same holiday time and could never have a family holiday. I live in a tourist town and work in a school, so I'd love someone to find a solution to this so that I don't have to wait until I retire to be able to enjoy a holiday (away or even just pottering around my own area) when it's not overcrowded and expensive.

We stop disproportionately subsidising air travel by zero taxation

We stop allowing cruise liners to burn low grade fuel and prevent them from registering ships in jurisdictions that are low tax low regulation (flag of convenience though many cruise liners don't use the rock bottom basement countries)

We stop subsidising fossil fuels full stop and put the money into railway improvements.

Consult locally on solutions to tourism and transit problems

Regulate advertising and frequent flyer/cruiser schemes, miles, points, freebies and upgrades

Start by managing hotel capacity including things like Airbnb. People don’t need to deal with tourists next door to residential homes.

then I don’t think it’s unreasonable to consider that some particular areas are essentially tourism zones. We don’t think twice about making a reservation and paying a fee to enter a theme park or a museum. Just because the attraction is outdoors doesn’t mean it doesn’t cost money to maintain and operate. The difference is that people also live and work in the area, but there are ways of dealing with that.

I still think letting people feel responsible for their kids education and letting them take time out when they like, but having the expectation that they will pick up the slack when they come back (much like in a normal job!) would be the best thing to do. Or maybe not the best, but one option.

Education is pretty fast paced here in uk. If dd misses a couple of days for sickness there is a lot for her to catch up. And she does need to catch up or she will suffer knock on effects in many subjects.

Factor 2 week off per year for "uncrowded holidays" per child, 30 kids per class, the effect not just on individual children, but on teachers (who seem to be pretty stretched already) and the class as a whole - well it's a massive negative impact.

I agree re school holidays @ThreeRingCircus its not only difficult for childcare but I don't think its so good for the kids either. I'm in Ireland and we have 8 or 9 weeks depending on the date they finish, this year we had 9 weeks for primary and an extra 4 weeks and a bit for secondary for non exam years. So my teenager was off for almost 14 weeks, but too young to get a job so it was just dead time that caused nothing but stress. Then they are worked to the bone all year long and end up exhausted playing catch up. But good luck getting the teachers unions to reform.

On the flip side, we don't have penalities for taking the children out of school, but its just a matter of whether its right for your child. We took 3 out of school for a ski holiday last year. We always check when UK mid terms are so make sure we are not clashing. I used to feel guilty about it as I always felt quite strongly about the importance of school attendance but the way we were just left to home school with so little guidance during covid changed my tune. I'm now the one repeating 'don't worry they'll catch up' which was the mantra at the time while zero supports were given to parents. Almost half the class are missing for the final 2 weeks of June every year as this is ideal for european holidays where temperatures are not too high. Imagine the difference it would make across Europe if school holidays weren't enforced in the UK, I don't know stats but UK tourists are a huge portion of Spanish and French tourism.

I also agree with a PP who mentioned an annual limit per person, this could be enforced via passports. Maybe 2 trips per year and any additional require a travel licence of some sort. It would be a huge administrative move though and possibly infringing on human rights, the planet will have to be on its knees before that happens I think.

I’m “off the beaten track” in Italy.

We have the occasional surge of pilgrim tourism (of the Holy Fake Magic Miracle Water with extra added Madonna apparitions variety).

Personally I’d like to deal with the issue by digging a huge moat and filling it with alligators. If any Anglo-sphere Rough Guide minded vlogger made it any worse by highlighting it I’d start digging the moat by hand, personally sitting on alligator eggs to hatch them and worry about planning permission/court cases later.

It is AWFUL when you live “off the beaten track” and then hoards of tourists “discover” you. A few benefit mightily from their presence. The rest of us just get lumbered with all the disadvantages. I’m voting a big fat no to the turn more places into Piccadilly Circus during the holiday seasons idea.

NB Am very very biased. But you would be too if you’d spent a memorable summer with the less mentally stable among us howling “Maria !” in the field behind your house at 3am. Although at least that type of tourist didn’t gridlock the place into a standstill most days for weeks on end.

Sadly @TheClitterati the NC500 was not invented by anyone in authority. It was dreamed up by local businesses ( one in particular) who marketed it without any consideration of the infrastructure needed or any consultation with councils or communities. Now the roads are fucked because they aren't designed for the levels of traffic and the same businesses have bought up most of the independent hotels. In the meantime highland council closed a lot of public toilets due to budget constraints.
There's also a real problem with litter. Someone has mentioned bins and litter collection on beaches, I genuinely think lots of people from cities think this happens in the country but it doesn't, the beaches in most of Scotland are wild spaces and if you dump your rubbish it's not going anywhere unless locals do a litter pick.

Tax holiday lets in the same way as hotels so they aren’t more attractive than residential lettings for landlords.
Introduce visa systems for day trippers so the number flooding into popular destinations could be controlled.
Introduce differential pricing for attractions so that tourists pay more than people who can prove they live within a certain distance.
These would at least return some balance so that tourist destinations don’t get swamped beyond their natural capacity.

We stop subsidising fossil fuels full stop and put the money into railway improvements

Can't wait to hear how I get to Australia to see family by train (and yes, I know it can be done, it just takes weeks).

And before the pearl clutching starts about flying that far for pleasure, I haven't been out there for 12 years.

There should be sticks and carrots to reduce business travel, but they need to be aimed at the business, not at individual employees who are just doing as they’re told. We proved that there’s no need for people to travel for meetings during covid, we shouldn’t allow it to creep back in now. But I can’t imagine many employers letting their staff say, oh no, I can’t go to that supplier meeting because I want to save my flights for my holiday. It would be tough titty, the unnecessary business flight would still happen, and the poor bastard wouldn’t get their holiday.

I find it strange tourism is such a huge thing still, you'd have thought that with all the high tech media and film we have documentaries would be more than enough to explore eg the pyramids or the van gogh museum