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Original poster

This government cares about the safety of schools, hence the action taken

96 replies

noblegiraffe · 01/09/2023 13:20

Says the government as they close 100 schools just before term starts (or after in some cases).

If this is your first rodeo with the DfE you might be surprised to hear that they've known about the issue for years. That a school ceiling collapsed in 2018 and it was only because it happened at the weekend, kids weren't killed or injured. That reports put the risk of school collapse as 'critical', but the govt did nothing for 5 years. The risk of school collapse was raised to 'highly likely' in Dec 2022 and it took till March 2023 for the government to take the action of.... sending headteachers a questionnaire asking if they reckoned their school had RAAC. They then set up a call centre in June 2023 to phone schools asking why they hadn't completed the survey.
Fastforward to August and schools are being closed.

You might consider this an aberration. Schools are now safe. But.

Schools are still being built with Grenfell-style cladding. It's ok for schools. https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2021/may/30/dozens-of-new-school-buildings-in-england-have-combustible-insulation

Schools aren't being fitted with sprinklers, going against fire safety advice https://www.nationalfirechiefs.org.uk/write/MediaUploads/Position%20statements/Protection/NFCC_Sprinklers_schools_position_statement_march_2018.pdf

The issue of asbestos which is present in over 80% of schools is becoming increasingly pressing. It's ok if asbestos is managed correctly, right? https://schoolsweek.co.uk/nearly-1-in-5-schools-not-in-line-with-guidance-on-managing-asbestos/ Asbestos is ok if left undisturbed, but with school buildings crumbling and falling apart, this means that previously 'safe' asbestos now poses a risk.
The HSE has become so concerned that in Sept 2022 it decided to start inspections of schools for asbestos management. https://content.govdelivery.com/accounts/UKHSE/bulletins/3204596 you might have thought that they did this already?

The government recently hired a contractor to build several new schools which have been unable to open due to safety concerns and some have now been demolished. There was a risk of them blowing away in high winds....but they were cheap. https://www.constructionenquirer.com/2023/08/24/caledonian-modular-built-schools-at-risk-of-collapse-in-high-winds/

The cost of repairing the school estate to a merely satisfactory standard has been estimated by the DfE itself as £11.4bn. Nowhere near this has been allocated, meaning schools are not at a satisfactory standard and are not planned to be. https://schoolsweek.co.uk/repairing-englands-schools-will-cost-11-4-billion-dfe-admits/

It only matters if it closes schools though, right?

Dozens of new school buildings in England ‘have combustible insulation’

Exclusive: cladding banned from high-rise blocks after Grenfell disaster still allowed on schools

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2021/may/30/dozens-of-new-school-buildings-in-england-have-combustible-insulation

OP posts:
RadishAndTwiglet · 01/09/2023 17:58

If this is your first rodeo with the DfE you might be surprised to hear that they've known about the issue for years.

Given that the reports I've been hearing say that this type of concrete was always used as a short term temporary fix, dating back to the 50s and was never intended to last more than 20 years or so, I'd say that successive governments have known about the issue for years, not just this one.

Original poster
noblegiraffe · 01/09/2023 18:05

I'd say that successive governments have known about the issue for years, not just this one.

That's referring to the abrupt closure of 100 schools just before schools re-opened for September. You'd think in that situation, something new and unexpected had happened. Actually they'd been sitting under a red flashing warning light for years that had been accompanied by a siren since December.

OP posts:
mrshoho · 01/09/2023 18:47

It just shows yet again how little value is placed on children and education. It's no surprise. The Conservatives have merely kicked this can down the road until we're now at this disastrous point. I feel for head teachers having to scrabble about at this late stage trying their best to find alternative buildings.

PictureFrameWindow · 01/09/2023 18:56

This is so f*ed up. But I'm totally unsurprised. The Tories only exist to enrich the rentier class now, they don't even pretend to do anything else. Roll on a GE.

areyouhavinglaugh · 01/09/2023 20:31

mrshoho · 01/09/2023 18:47

It just shows yet again how little value is placed on children and education. It's no surprise. The Conservatives have merely kicked this can down the road until we're now at this disastrous point. I feel for head teachers having to scrabble about at this late stage trying their best to find alternative buildings.

Really? Because I remember a time when labour had invested so much into education and schools and where about to roll out huge funding into new schools and refurbishing old schools... and when tories got in they scrapped all of it overnight. Then under the name of austerity fucked it all over! Nothing 'de nada' budgets slashed , price per pupil slashed. And here we are!

978q · 01/09/2023 21:11

PFI is at the root, corruption and shoddy builds.

Original poster
noblegiraffe · 01/09/2023 21:22

I don't think PFI was around when the RAAC school buildings were built? It started in 1992.

OP posts:
LizzieSiddal · 01/09/2023 21:27

This government do not give a single fuck about us normal folk. They and their friends can afford private schools and private medicine so they can never be trusted with public services.

We need an election now!

978q · 01/09/2023 21:37

noblegiraffe · 01/09/2023 21:22

I don't think PFI was around when the RAAC school buildings were built? It started in 1992.

RAAC was used up until around 1997, it had a lifespan of 30 years, all governments knew that, all should either be demolished or have the RAAC removed and replaced.

CamandIs · 01/09/2023 21:52

LizzieSiddal · 01/09/2023 21:27

This government do not give a single fuck about us normal folk. They and their friends can afford private schools and private medicine so they can never be trusted with public services.

We need an election now!

This.
They don't care at all. They're running all public services unto the ground. So much for levelling up.

Original poster
noblegiraffe · 01/09/2023 22:09

RAAC was used up until around 1997

Predominantly used between the 60s and 80s, I think that's where the concern around schools is.

If it has a lifespan of 30 years and was built in 1997, it presumably isn't an imminent risk.

OP posts:
Jellykat · 01/09/2023 22:16

My local hospital has 3 wards closed due to RAAC, it cant be the only one, so its not just schools..

toomuchlaundry · 01/09/2023 22:20

I wonder if there are any independent schools which have this issue

Original poster
noblegiraffe · 01/09/2023 22:27

Yes, I know of at least one private school affected.

OP posts:
Chersfrozenface · 02/09/2023 03:25

toomuchlaundry · 01/09/2023 22:20

I wonder if there are any independent schools which have this issue

Inevitably some private buildings, not only private schools, will be affected.

Construction firms used RAAC in buildings in both the public and private sectors.

This story says the material has been found in at least one shopping centre
https://www.google.com/amp/s/news.sky.com/story/amp/hospitals-courts-and-a-shopping-centre-which-other-buildings-are-at-risk-of-concrete-collapse-12952243

WeetabixTowels · 02/09/2023 03:32

You lost me at ‘this government cares’ I’m afraid

Rolypops · 02/09/2023 04:26

I feel sick at the idea of facing a new term once again anxious to send my kids to school every day. First so scared they would get covid and suffer long term health problems, then strep, now we have to worry about the buildings literally collapsing on them. I wish I had the resources to home school them. What a nightmare.

toomuchlaundry · 02/09/2023 08:54

Can houses have it too? What about blocks of flats?

Original poster
noblegiraffe · 02/09/2023 09:07

Yes, any building. The BBC was saying yesterday that you could buy it on the open market (it wasn’t some special material hogged by the govt for public sector buildings), so it could be in anything from that era.

OP posts:
Original poster
noblegiraffe · 02/09/2023 09:07

WeetabixTowels · 02/09/2023 03:32

You lost me at ‘this government cares’ I’m afraid

I think it’s fairly clear from my OP that I don’t think that they do.

OP posts:
toomuchlaundry · 02/09/2023 09:12

What a ticking time bomb!

I assume this is different to what was known as concrete cancer

Araminta1003 · 02/09/2023 09:16

We have had emails from DCs schools all built in the relevant era saying they don’t believe they have RAAC but to be prudent, have to carry out further investigations. The tone is more along the lines of the DFE have changed the safety guidelines and they are all being ultra cautious. Sounds a bit like the asbestos issues many schools have. Things need to be documented and logged properly. The heads need to be given the responsibility and funding to then deal with it.
This issue should not be another tool for political point scoring and the media frenzy and papers making tons of cash again playing on parental and teacher and kids anxieties.

6strings1song · 02/09/2023 09:23

Someone in government has probably got a mate or relative who owns a construction firm. Probably have seen a great opportunity to get some backhanders from all the construction contracts which are about to happen. Even more so that the tories are about to voted out in the next general election...quick quick...get those mandatory and urgent repair schemes authorised quick!

Cynical, me? Never.

Original poster
noblegiraffe · 02/09/2023 09:30

We have had emails from DCs schools all built in the relevant era saying they don’t believe they have RAAC but to be prudent, have to carry out further investigations.

This is going to be a massive issue. The govt are saying that the schools that have closed have confirmed RAAC, implying that the other schools are 'safe' and don't have confirmed RAAC where they might actually have unconfirmed RAAC and are waiting for an expert to confirm, or where they thought they didn't have RAAC and might now be reconsidering whether they should get someone who knows about this stuff to take a look.

OP posts:
toomuchlaundry · 02/09/2023 09:41

How can you tell whether a building has this stuff in it? Especially places like schools where they have had various additions over the years. So it isn’t like you can look at one classroom and that will tell you the materials used for the whole of the school. They also surely need experts to be looking, not just asking school headteacher/premises manager to complete a survey