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Original poster

ULEZ rant

128 replies

CapturedLeprechaun · 31/08/2023 11:44

I live outside the ULEZ zone, but work as a social worker in a london Borough that falls inside the new expansion zone.

My car is not ULEZ compliant (2006 plate diesel) but runs perfectly fine. I use my car for work purposes for visits to homes and schools, and can claim back 45p per mile on expenses.

My borough has said they will not be allowing ULEZ charges to be claimed on expenses, but will instead provide a bus pass for those that need it. I have worked out the journey time for an average week, and I'll spend approx 6+ hours more a week making my visits by bus than I would by car.

It's so frustrating- that's basically almost a whole day extra a week I'll "lose" in working hours sitting on a bus, yet I'll have the same amount of work to get through. It just seems so shortsighted, and I'm so annoyed. I explained this to HR, and said that if they paid the ULEZ charge for one or two days a week, I could do all my weekly visits on those days and wouldn't lose any working hours sitting idly on a bus, and it makes more financial sense to the council than to have a social worker being unproductive for 6+ hours a week. They're not budging.

So bloody frustrating.

OP posts:
LittleBearPad · 01/09/2023 14:13

StEImosFire · 01/09/2023 13:30

But it's ok to go and take non compliant cars through London, as long as you can afford the £12.50.

Doesn't strike me that they are that serious about 'air pollution' at all. If they were concerned about human health, they certainly wouldn't be encouraging more people down into the tube would they. 🤔

There is also the small, but meaningful consideration of the environmental cost of destroying cars before their time is up, and manufacturing new 'compliant' cars which is not good for environment / air pollution. But the cost to other people / countries of the can't be seen from London can it.

There isn't thousands of suitable ulez compliant cars available for less than 2k btw.

There are over 4,000 cars on the Autotrader website that are ULEZ compliant and under £2k. Some of the cheapest are for spares or need repair but the vast majority can be bought and driven.

There is no need to buy a brand new car.

LittleBearPad · 01/09/2023 14:16

StEImosFire · 01/09/2023 13:31

Because surely that is saying that actually the air quality doesn't matter for the people unfortunate to be living along the exempt road

It seems to be the case yes.

Let’s ban them all then

Uterusbegone · 01/09/2023 17:36

*I suppose one could also ask,have you ever been to Birmingham, Bradford or Sheffield? Or Bristol or Bath? Or Portsmouth? Or Tyneside?

Because ULEZ exist in the "everywhere else in the country" too.*

I have but they tend to be in City centres with decent public transport (like central London) rather than the further reaches of the Cities e.g I don't think the Birmingham one even goes as far as Edgebaston but this would be like including Sutton Coldfield, or the Bristol one including Clifton and Avonmouth.

I'm sure the residents of those areas would be totally pissed off if they had 9 months notice that they now need to pay 12.50 a day (oh yeah, the London one is significantly more expensive than the others used as an example as well) to get the kids to school or go to work

user1477391263 · 01/09/2023 18:07

The “rich people will be able to continue to take non-ULEZ-compliant cars into London!”thing is a bit weird. How many rich people are driving ancient diesels about?

StEImosFire · 01/09/2023 18:58

LittleBearPad · 01/09/2023 14:13

There are over 4,000 cars on the Autotrader website that are ULEZ compliant and under £2k. Some of the cheapest are for spares or need repair but the vast majority can be bought and driven.

There is no need to buy a brand new car.

Show quote history

I've checked. I see the majority of these cars at 2k and under have huge mileage on the clock and are reaching the end of their life. People are selling them because they are getting to the point that they need repairs on them, or already do need repairs. Thats not a good option for people who can't afford to trade in is it. They might be able to buy and drive them. But it won't be long until they are faced with another unaffordable bill. 🙄

StEImosFire · 01/09/2023 19:00

user1477391263 · 01/09/2023 18:07

The “rich people will be able to continue to take non-ULEZ-compliant cars into London!”thing is a bit weird. How many rich people are driving ancient diesels about?

Probably not many. This is a financial penalty primarily levied at poor people.

User1659463 · 01/09/2023 19:24

user1477391263 · 01/09/2023 18:07

The “rich people will be able to continue to take non-ULEZ-compliant cars into London!”thing is a bit weird. How many rich people are driving ancient diesels about?

We are fairly well off and drive a 2015 non compliant diesel, we could easily afford a new SUV, EV or the £12.50, we are quite happy with the car we have so will probably just pay the £12.50. We live nearby in one of the bordering counties

user1477391263 · 01/09/2023 20:00

OK, well, thank you for filling the air with your unpleasant diesel gases, I guess?

sadaboutmycat · 01/09/2023 20:06

user1477391263 · 01/09/2023 09:55

Well, I appreciate it’s not easy, but your car is diesel and was manufactured the best part of two decades ago. You need to trade in your car, surely. We’ve all known diesels create filthy emissions for a really long time.

Not for a really long time, no. Otherwise those of us who have a claim against being mid sold diesel would not have a claim.

LittleBearPad · 01/09/2023 20:12

sadaboutmycat · 01/09/2023 20:06

Not for a really long time, no. Otherwise those of us who have a claim against being mid sold diesel would not have a claim.

Show quote history

It’s not new news though - the issues about NOx emissions have been known about for a good ten years.

LittleBearPad · 01/09/2023 20:15

StEImosFire · 01/09/2023 18:58

I've checked. I see the majority of these cars at 2k and under have huge mileage on the clock and are reaching the end of their life. People are selling them because they are getting to the point that they need repairs on them, or already do need repairs. Thats not a good option for people who can't afford to trade in is it. They might be able to buy and drive them. But it won't be long until they are faced with another unaffordable bill. 🙄

Show quote history

Well Yes - £2k doesn’t buy you a low mileage car. But if £2k is a better offer than trading in your existing car it doesn’t suggest that that car is worth much either; particularly if it’s petrol and therefore over 17 years old.

NorthernSoul55 · 01/09/2023 20:46

Seeline · 01/09/2023 12:27

Certainly Birmingham and Bristol areas only cover a very small section of the actual city centre. The London ULEZ is like applying Birmingham's to the whole of the West Midlands conurbation!

Show quote history

And Bradford ULEZ doesn't apply at all to private cars.

bluejumping · 01/09/2023 20:59

Suggest you quit and go agency OP!

Ypu'll be able to afford a new car in no time !

bluejumping · 01/09/2023 21:08

Tbh, it's ridiculous that your employer can't cover the £12.50 4-8 times a month

Bloody outrageous

It's a drop in the ocean. So much money is wasted

Phineyj · 01/09/2023 21:31

I live in one of the outer boroughs that is rural in places, has no Tube and has infrequent and slow buses (2.5 hours to do a 7 mile jourmey back from work by bus today) and drive a very low mileage in my small 2013 diesel. Mostly I use the train (when it's not on bloody strike).

My car has many more years of service in it. It bothers me what's going to happen to the electric batteries. As a previous poster alluded to, the raw materials are mined in horrible conditions on the other side of the world.

There is nothing about Ulez that encourages people to drive fewer miles. Indeed, once you've shelled out £12.50 (or bought a nice electric car) you might as well pack in as many journeys as possible!

As to the OP - some occupations such as social work and care work should have been exceptions.

LittleBearPad · 01/09/2023 21:53

Phineyj · 01/09/2023 21:31

I live in one of the outer boroughs that is rural in places, has no Tube and has infrequent and slow buses (2.5 hours to do a 7 mile jourmey back from work by bus today) and drive a very low mileage in my small 2013 diesel. Mostly I use the train (when it's not on bloody strike).

My car has many more years of service in it. It bothers me what's going to happen to the electric batteries. As a previous poster alluded to, the raw materials are mined in horrible conditions on the other side of the world.

There is nothing about Ulez that encourages people to drive fewer miles. Indeed, once you've shelled out £12.50 (or bought a nice electric car) you might as well pack in as many journeys as possible!

As to the OP - some occupations such as social work and care work should have been exceptions.

My car has many more years of service in it. It bothers me what's going to happen to the electric batteries. As a previous poster alluded to, the raw materials are mined in horrible conditions on the other side of the world.

Did you write your post on a smartphone? Or a computer with a rechargeable battery. Same raw materials.

Original poster
CapturedLeprechaun · 01/09/2023 22:00

bluejumping · 01/09/2023 21:08

Tbh, it's ridiculous that your employer can't cover the £12.50 4-8 times a month

Bloody outrageous

It's a drop in the ocean. So much money is wasted

This is what really irks me. It's not the ULEZ scheme necessarily, I'm all for cleaner air.

But my borough was one of the ones appealing in the high court because they were so opposed to it, so they hadn't told staff what was happening as they wanted to wait until the outcome. And they were all "THIS WILL HIT THE POOREST PEOPLE AND ITS WRONG" and then suddenly it happens and they don't give a shit?!

And also, my hourly wage works out as like £17 an hour. On Monday next week, what is a 19 min car journey on google maps is a 1hr 22min walk/bus. It makes financial sense to pay the £12.50 charge rather than have me sitting idly for an hour on a bus, because £12.50 ULEZ charge makes more sense than £17 wasted staff time, it's not a good use of council resources to have peoples time wasted like that. I explained this clearly, outlining my journeys and showing the comparison in car vs bus, and they still said "computer says no".

And that's just one journey. HR said that if a staff member is pregnant or has mobility issues, taxis can be paid for instead of public transport. One of my coworkers is in the same situation (non compliant car), and the council will end up forking out approx £40+ a day on taxis rather than pay her ULEZ?! There is no common sense here at all.

OP posts:
LlynTegid · 01/09/2023 22:05

Your borough wasted money on a legal case that was 99% certain to fail, money they could have given each of the social work team towards a compliant car.

Phineyj · 01/09/2023 22:06

Yes I wrote the post on a smartphone. I'm not sure it's a good parallel seeing as I'm going to use it as long as it's viable and no-one's taxing me to do so.

We should be thinking about embodied energy: using things as long as possible.

The scrappage subsidy is about the same cost as retrofitting a diesel from Euro 5 to Euro 6.

LittleBearPad · 01/09/2023 23:55

Phineyj · 01/09/2023 22:06

Yes I wrote the post on a smartphone. I'm not sure it's a good parallel seeing as I'm going to use it as long as it's viable and no-one's taxing me to do so.

We should be thinking about embodied energy: using things as long as possible.

The scrappage subsidy is about the same cost as retrofitting a diesel from Euro 5 to Euro 6.

You can’t claim concern about where the raw materials for a EV battery come from whilst typing on a smartphone containing the same raw materials in its batteries.

TheThingIsYeah · 02/09/2023 07:36

It bothers me what's going to happen to the electric batteries. As a previous poster alluded to, the raw materials are mined in horrible conditions on the other side of the world.

@Phineyj Ssh! You're not allowed to suggest EVs are bad for the environment, or highlight the dubious way the materials are sourced.

Surprised Sadiq Khan has expanded ULEZ, I thought he was all for championing the POOREST in our COMMUNITIES. But maybe not.

StEImosFire · 02/09/2023 07:57

LittleBearPad · 01/09/2023 23:55

You can’t claim concern about where the raw materials for a EV battery come from whilst typing on a smartphone containing the same raw materials in its batteries.

Show quote history

You certainly can't claim to care about the environment if you are happy for the problem to be hugely escalated through the production and use of electric cars.

StEImosFire · 02/09/2023 08:10

Ssh! You're not allowed to suggest EVs are bad for the environment, or highlight the dubious way the materials are sourced

EVs are bad for the environment. It never makes sense to me that the people who claim to care about the environment refuse to consider this. I think they can only care about what it looks like on their own doorstep. Not what they are doing to other people / communities / parts of the world. Out of sight and out of mind.

There's big business and money to be made from all things 'green'. It's ruthless. And we will all be footing the bill for that, in every possible way imaginable.
People who truly understand and care are just standing back in horror, watching green issues be repackaged in to something that benefits big businesses and actually destroys the environment even further. It doesn't benefit ordinarily people.
Awaits deletion for speaking the truth...

LittleBearPad · 02/09/2023 08:13

StEImosFire · 02/09/2023 08:10

Ssh! You're not allowed to suggest EVs are bad for the environment, or highlight the dubious way the materials are sourced

EVs are bad for the environment. It never makes sense to me that the people who claim to care about the environment refuse to consider this. I think they can only care about what it looks like on their own doorstep. Not what they are doing to other people / communities / parts of the world. Out of sight and out of mind.

There's big business and money to be made from all things 'green'. It's ruthless. And we will all be footing the bill for that, in every possible way imaginable.
People who truly understand and care are just standing back in horror, watching green issues be repackaged in to something that benefits big businesses and actually destroys the environment even further. It doesn't benefit ordinarily people.
Awaits deletion for speaking the truth...

You aren’t going to be deleted as your post doesn’t breach talk guidelines.

If EVs are bad for the environment what’s your solution? ICE cars are on their way out. Hydrogen?

StEImosFire · 02/09/2023 08:15

I think if you don't want to find a job outside of London op, then you need to make sure you stick to your hours and not a minute over. Plot out your diary with your visits / time it takes to write up assessments/ travel time, and then when you are asked to take on more work, show it to them and ask where they think you would be able to fit that in, now that much of your time is taken up by travelling. Really stick to your guns, and encourage your colleagues to do the same. When the complaints start rolling on, perhaps then your council will find the money for the ulez charges.