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Original poster

DS flexible working hours.

51 replies

littlefireseverywhere · 23/08/2023 19:41

DS (19) started work as a recruitment consultant for a large agency. They’ve a great training programme. We live fairly remotely so he advised the trains he’d need to get in the morning & evening & agreed this as part of the hiring process as the first 6 months are in the office. He gets in at 8.45 am (as agreed at interview) but office start time is 8.30 am. He finishes at 5.30 pm but for various reasons can’t stay later unless a meeting etc. So he takes a 45 minute lunch rather than an hour.

Now a month in, his line manager has issues with this arrangement. And wants him to stay 15 minutes later each evening. it’s now going to the regional director to decide what should happen next.

DS feels he’s being unfairly targeted with this, their reasons are how it looks to the rest of the office as the sole issue. They think he’s great in all other respects.

Where does he stand legally?

OP posts:
WhatAPalaverer · 23/08/2023 20:56

His commute is his problem if he’s taken a job. Its not their fault he can’t or won’t drive/cycle.

Hellocatshome · 23/08/2023 20:57

Octosaurus · 23/08/2023 20:54

Wow I can't believe they care so much about 15 minutes

They probably care because others will see him leaving 15 minutes early and start asking to do the same because they have a train to catch, kids to pick up, dog to walk etc. Once you do it for one its very hard to not do it for others especially people that have been there a long time who see a new starter getting what they see as preferential treatment.

OleMioSole · 23/08/2023 21:04

Floralnomad · 23/08/2023 20:55

6:40 is quiet a normal time for someone commuting , he must have said something about it to the boss or they wouldn’t know about the timings etc . It’s pretty poor form really you should just do the set hours and try to look really enthusiastically when on probation

I'm also wondering whether the recruiter (ironically) agreed it, not his actual line manager.
When we have mass recruited onto training programs we just got given a new hire, didn't know who until a few weeks before. Maybe they agreed on the grounds of flexible company culture in general but a new recruit should show willingness and enthusiasm?

Also how much are they paying him OP? Base, commission? Maybe he could consider living closer, at least until he passes probation?

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Unicorn2022 · 23/08/2023 21:04

Octosaurus · 23/08/2023 20:54

Wow I can't believe they care so much about 15 minutes

It's not just the 15 minutes - it's starting 15 mins later than office start time, taking a 45 minute lunch break when everyone else takes an hour and presumably rushing out on the dot of 5.30 every day. It must be very annoying to staff who have been there a while to see a new starter given all these concessions.

NoTouch · 23/08/2023 21:27

He needs to suck it up for 6 months and the 2 days he is in the office.

They are being flexible by letting him start late when he has no compelling reason other than he doesn't want to get up early, he is pushing it expecting not to make it up at the end of the day if that isnt the way their office works.

If he has a real reason he has to leave on time he needs to get in on time.

Haveallthesongsbeenwritten · 23/08/2023 21:28

Unicorn2022 · 23/08/2023 21:04

It's not just the 15 minutes - it's starting 15 mins later than office start time, taking a 45 minute lunch break when everyone else takes an hour and presumably rushing out on the dot of 5.30 every day. It must be very annoying to staff who have been there a while to see a new starter given all these concessions.

Show quote history

Absolutely. I am nearly 10 years in my job, i still work beyond the 9 to 5….

Jk987 · 23/08/2023 21:29

I think 8:30 - 5:30 is long day at 9 hours + commute. I think quibbling over 15 mins is ridiculous of the managers given his good performance.

Hellocatshome · 23/08/2023 21:33

Jk987 · 23/08/2023 21:29

I think 8:30 - 5:30 is long day at 9 hours + commute. I think quibbling over 15 mins is ridiculous of the managers given his good performance.

Employers do not need to take in to consideration the length of your commute. If they move location after you already work for them thats different. You get out of work what you put in. I andnlots of my colleagues work very flexible hours now but when we were young with no dependents we worked what we were told to work and often more to enable us to be in the positions we are now where our employers give some of that good will back.

rwalker · 23/08/2023 21:44

There a perfectly suitable alternative the 6.40 bus
just really highlights that he’s not prepared to put himself out or go the extra mile

if you want to get one and build a career you need to put yourself out
tbh as a manager I’d be less than impressed

Haveallthesongsbeenwritten · 23/08/2023 21:50

rwalker · 23/08/2023 21:44

There a perfectly suitable alternative the 6.40 bus
just really highlights that he’s not prepared to put himself out or go the extra mile

if you want to get one and build a career you need to put yourself out
tbh as a manager I’d be less than impressed

Agree

WandaWonder · 23/08/2023 21:57

Unsettling to be constrained by time? That is work life

If he starts 15 mins late has the 45 mins lunch he needs to stay back 30 mins.

At the interview (if he didn't) he needs to ask hours then work transport before accepting the job

BIossomtoes · 23/08/2023 22:07

He needs to be on that 6.40 bus. And whatever train he can catch at the end of the day after his 5.30 finish. What the hell has happened in employment lately? This would have been non negotiable everywhere I’ve ever worked.

anotherdaytoday76 · 23/08/2023 22:10

I'm sorry op but you and your son are being unreasonable. In my 20s I did IT trade floor support and started work at 6:15am. 5 days a week.

Why can't he stay later unless there's a meeting?

How long is his commute?

Drywhitefruitycidergin · 23/08/2023 22:16

Obviously if he wants to get to the 6 month point & progress he needs to get the earlier bus/later train home/move closer to the office although with rent prices this might be mega unachievable
BUT
I genuinely don't understand workplaces like recruitment consultants this which judge on presenteeism rather than results & as long as it is give & take (ie something critical = start early/stay late)

ClarkWGriswaldd · 23/08/2023 22:20

You're not being unreasonable at all given the fact that his employers AGREED this work pattern with him prior to him accepting the job.

He's also doing the hours - just in a different pattern - again, this was AGREED before he started

So yes, I can see why he is feeling let down and aggrieved.

So he's left with a few choices. He either says he can't amend his timings - but this could lead to a loss of the job. Or he just sucks it up and gets in earlier / catches a later train in the evening. Or you take him to the station a little earlier if you're able to.

I think I'd try and do as they're clearly wanting IF he wants to keep the job. Because it's only for another 5 months and then he has the option to work from home for 3 days a week

Friggingfrog · 23/08/2023 22:21

I suppose he’ll just have to get the earlier train there and later train home unless there’s a reason he’s not able to?

Scrapper142 · 23/08/2023 22:39

What time does the early bus get in? If it's by 7.30 could he do that on a Monday, work an extra hour, so already worked the 15 minutes he's missing tue-fri.

Original poster
littlefireseverywhere · 23/08/2023 22:50

Some good ideas, I’ll let him know.

i

OP posts:
2weekstowait · 23/08/2023 22:52

He needs to put up with early starts and get the earlier train and also a later train home if necessary. I would assume he's on a three month probation during which it's pretty easy to get rid of someone if they want to. I think he should definitely try to fit in with the normal working hours until he can work from home more, it's not the end of the world. Plenty of people have much more valid reasons for starting work late than just saying it's too early.

Ultimately, he probably needs to learn to drive if transport is a problem...

cocksstrideintheevening · 23/08/2023 23:09

The commute isn't the employer's problem. If at this stage in recruitment and they're querying he's not hitting target (which is ruthless) and /
Or they don't want to set a precedent

Shopper727 · 24/08/2023 12:27

What would he do if you couldn’t drop him off? I’m a nurse so away before my older sons (18/22) they drive/get bus/train to work college etc you work the hours you’re asked to, they may have agreed something but they’ve changed their minds I would just stay later, that’s life and work. I think a lot of young people think things will fall into their laps and they don’t have to work hard for what they want. My son was like this until he left school, got a job in a kitchen and boy did he get a shock. You can only tell them so much though. They have to work it out for themselves.

I worked 12 hour shifts, 0830 - 1730 is not a long day, I do similar now and it’s lovely and not on my feet the same, nursing is so mentally and physically challenging/demanding. Then 1 hour commute there and back. Was my choice however.

Peony654 · 24/08/2023 12:32

Meatus · 23/08/2023 20:47

Honestly OP, you’re setting him up for a a work life of disappointments if you pander to him moaning on this one.

I’ve done my time in recruitment after uni and even a 17.30 finish is considered early. It’s a sales role and, ultimately, you’re there until you meet your targets.

Given he’s young, presumably without a heap of qualifications, and you live rurally, he needs to be careful here as it doesn’t sound like he’ll have his choice of jobs if his travel times are so limited.

I’d be telling him to grin and bear the early starts to get the 06.40 train for the next few months, then he’ll reap the reward of being able to work from home three days a week. Recruitment can be quite lucrative if he’s good at it, and the big consultancies like Hays offer lots of opportunities and networking chances.

This. Work doesn't always fit to your preferred schedule. If he knows he can WFH after 6 months, I'd stick it out for now. I would have thought a 19 year old would be mortified to have their mum so involved

OleMioSole · 24/08/2023 18:14

Drywhitefruitycidergin · 23/08/2023 22:16

Obviously if he wants to get to the 6 month point & progress he needs to get the earlier bus/later train home/move closer to the office although with rent prices this might be mega unachievable
BUT
I genuinely don't understand workplaces like recruitment consultants this which judge on presenteeism rather than results & as long as it is give & take (ie something critical = start early/stay late)

He's 19 in his first job... a month in he's definitely not going to have any 'results' to speak of.
What he does have however is attitude and potential.
This is third hand, so we don't know whether he's telling the truth or a version that makes him look better... but as a new starter willingness and enthusiasm takes you far. Once you've put in the work you can have a bit of flexibility.

I don't really blame the lad. His current LM might not be the same as whoever interviewed and recruited him. It's bad practice to have said it's acceptable, they should have just been honest and said it's up to his individual LM.

But his mother should know better. And if he's indeed as rural as they say he's unlikely to get many other opportunities that don't require an early start. Remote is great when you're experienced but not for your first job, you learn so much from incidental conversations.

Stompythedinosaur · 24/08/2023 18:36

He's not entitled to those hours but he has asked. He'll get an answer, and will have to get the earlier train if it's a no. No point in worrying further.

LlynTegid · 24/08/2023 19:35

Legally he has not got any comeback.

The offer of starting earlier one day a week could be a way forward. 640am is not an unreasonable time to leave the house.

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