Please advise me on this nursery dilemma?

[CanterburyTale]

Looking for advice / experiences about nursery as this is our first child and we don't know many other parents.

DS is 3 (turned 3 last month) and attends nursery 4 days pw. He has been there 1.5 years in total. He recently moved up to the final "room", the preschool room. As is often typical he found the transition hard, however it has become absolutely awful at drop off - he is so sad and distressed I am concerned that he's not feeling any better or settling in.

The room feels like a downgrade from the last room, not a step up. Example, the ratios are larger for this age group so staffing is now 1:8, meaning there is usually no-one available to come to the door to say good morning. In the last room there were 2 carers in particular who were so kind towards him, and they used to cuddle him and make him laugh. His new key carer is new to the nursery, and I know they had trouble recruiting staff, but I am not immediately impressed by her and I get a bad vibe from her. She hasn't introduced herself to us ever, and she is always either sat down passively looking pissed off or just tidying up. I never see her playing or smiling at the children, and one time I saw her rolling her eyes at a child - I know it's hard work but her demeanour is that she hates her job. My son has not connected with her at all which is sad. He was sobbing his heart out the other morning whilst clinging to me and she just called out from the other side of the room with no emotion in her voice "oh dear DSname" without looking at him and that was it - no attempt to come up and engage him or anything. I know they are so busy and I am furious at how shit and underfunded childcare is more broadly, but is this just something we have to accept?

DH and I are wondering if we should move our DS to a new nursery. But we don't want to jump out of the frying pan into the fire and if we do decide to move DS then we will have to stick to it. We don't want to disrupt him further and like many little children he struggles with transitions, although he is a bubbly confident boy once he feels safe, but he does need that extra bit of reassurance at first. So my main question is...Is it better to try something new for 1 year before he starts school next Sept, and go through all the upheaval of moving him, or would it be better to stick with the nursery he knows and try to make it work? (Some of the staff at the nursery are lovely, like the ones in his old room and the manager all of whom he will bump into each day, but they are just not the ones looking after him in his room).

It's so hard to know what to do! I would really appreciate any advice on this dilemma. It's hard to know what the nurseries are actually like before your child attends. Some parents are sending their DC to a local Montessori place which might be an option, but my son is very energetic and enjoys running around outside so I don't know if the style will suit him as they don't have much outside space at all.

Anyway sorry for rambling, but I hate seeing my son so sad. The nursery always say he is fine during the day, but at home he says he doesn't like the new room and never wants to go in now, and cries about it at home. Also when I pick him up he is often behaving in a way like he is overwhelmed or angry and doesn't know how to articulate his feelings - throwing things etc. It could be relief at seeing me, or sadness because he's not enjoyed his day? I feel like the nursery staff would always say he has had a lovely day regardless but I don't know if I'm just being cynical.

Thanks if you've read all this. Please can anyone offer advice or experiences?

Go and visit the other nurseries and see what you think first. Then decide.

Can you speak to the manager, maybe express your concerns that your son isn't settling in the new room? Maybe try talking to other parents and looking at recent reviews on google/ childcare.co.uk too as I bet you're not the first with this experience.

I'd be getting my ducks in a row and looking at other settings asap. You know your son and have identified changes in his behaviour, he clearly isn't happy.

Sending you hugs and strength too, I would be so upset by this.

In primary early years at our school, the children are greeted at the door by a teacher; the nursery sounds useless to be honest. Consider primary pre-schools plus a childminder; he can then get used to the school before reception and will make friends.

@GRex they have one carer at the breakfast table who is not allowed to move from the table, and the other carer is invariably doing something else so no-one comes to greet him. Also in the last room they got to know him and found little tricks and tactics to engage him and get in into the room happily, like bringing over a new toy or getting out the play dough or something. If a carer does eventually come over to the door in this new room they just say "come on then" or something and it's not particularly helpful.

This is not how someone is welcomed to a home. Even in most offices, the team will look up, smile and say good morning. Meeting friends in a bar, people say hello. Walking into a shop, staff say hello. School and summer camp, someone is by the gate and by the door to say hello.

As adults, most of us would find being ignored on arrival really rude and off-putting, so it isn't surprising that your DS doesn't like it, he's just reacting to their behaviour. I really would remove him and complain. He won't be treated like that elsewhere. You may still have time to get him into a school pre-school at the start if you apply now.

There is a possibility that your DS settles just fine after you go, OP - maybe that explains why the teacher doesn't like to make a huge fuss.
However, I work in a nursery with a preschool and I always greet every child at the door - although I work in the baby room i know all of the preschoolers' names, and so do the rest of the staff.
It sounds like this PS room leader is a bit naff and letting the place down.
I think it'd be worth looking at other places, especially if you get free hours. Nothing to lose by looking really

I would speak to the manager about your concerns. Yes, with those ratios, it sounds like someone needs to be supervising the children who are eating. But that person can still smile and wave hello. And the one who is just sat there or tidying is able to take 10 minutes at the start and end of the day to welcome in and settle the children and engage with parents. I've never used a nursery or preschool where that didn't happen. How do you even get into the building/room if no one is around to let you in and greet you? There must be someone who is there who can do the settling in.

And yes, it's worth having a look around to see what your other options are. Mine one ever went to nurseries where there was one room for all ages. So they didn't move up rooms and had the same staff and same key worker for 3 years. But if it's a big change between rooms then there is probably little difference between that and a new preschool, except for friends. How are his friendships? Will he miss those friends if he changes? By 3, both of mine had close friendships that continued into school, so they would have been sad to leave those, much more than the staff. Another consideration is whether you'd even be able to get a place in a decent preschool. Most will likely be full with only 2 weeks to go before the new term. The ones that don't may not be the ones you want to use. But it will depend on your area. Where we live is rural and there's usually always flexibility everywhere, but where things are more oversubscribed, you may struggle more.

We used a childminder & then once 3 childminder plus the nursery at school.

Childminder obviously answers the door and says hello.

Nursery attached to school has set arrival time so they queue up & go in together so all children start day off at same time.

It sounds like the nursery has drop off as and when suits parents so no official start to session.

I would recommend childminder as pretty sure they would have less children than 8. Maybe find one who can collect from primary school you plan to use?