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Staff shortages in tourist areas.

175 replies

StaffShortages · 21/08/2023 17:05

I've just returned from the Lake District and there's a severe shortage of staff, partly due to Brexit but also apparently because of a lack of affordable accommodation. One chip shop was offering £14 an hour for a counter assistant. Many restaurants shut for a day or two because of staff shortages.

Is the same happening in other touristy parts of the UK?

OP posts:
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8
taxguru · 22/08/2023 10:53

@RhymesWithTangerine

Fucks sale people! For sacrificing very little countryside, young couples can actually start families in houses with gardens and parking spaces. People have just got to stop being such dicks about planning.

100% agree with this. NIMBYs are ruining our children's futures. We need "grown up" discussions on how we can build several million more homes in the next decade or so, otherwise we're going to have huge problems. We can't keep kicking the can down the road and "hoping" something turns up to solve the problem.

We've not built anywhere near enough homes for about 20 years or more, but our population is expanding. We keep hearing of governmental "initiatives" to develop brown field sites, renovate flats above High Street shops, etc., but the amount of homes created by that kind of thing is pitiful compared to what we need. We actually need several "new towns" with proper infrastructure to serve tens of thousands of homes each. We can't rely on lots of small scale new developments on the edges of existing towns putting huge pressure on local infrastructure.

Blairs expansion of universities and his 50% target havn't helped as most university towns have housing shortages caused by "local" homes being bought by landlords and converted to multiple occupancy student lets, plus city centre "brownfield" sites being converted into blocks of student flats. All financed by taxpayers via student loans! Even worse is that those student flats, like holiday lets, are empty for many weeks of the year. Such a shame that they weren't planned to be student lets during the Uni year and then holiday flats in the long Summer holidays - surely some bright spark could have come up with a way to make that work!

ClaraThePigeon · 22/08/2023 11:00

They're doing nothing but building new homes on countryside in my area and it's gotten to the ridiculous stage. We need land for wildlife, they matter too, and also to help prevent flooding. I don't want to see every bit of green land built on. I'd rather have a crackdown on second homes and use empty derelict houses, it's amazing how many there are, than deprive wildlife of even more land, us of nature and increase flooding.

Not to mention that most of the homes they're building in my area are large, expensive and unaffordable for your average family though this is a pretty wealthy area. I'd rather see them build smaller more affordable homes or flats.

Sunnysunshine123 · 22/08/2023 11:16

taxguru · 22/08/2023 10:53

@RhymesWithTangerine

Fucks sale people! For sacrificing very little countryside, young couples can actually start families in houses with gardens and parking spaces. People have just got to stop being such dicks about planning.

100% agree with this. NIMBYs are ruining our children's futures. We need "grown up" discussions on how we can build several million more homes in the next decade or so, otherwise we're going to have huge problems. We can't keep kicking the can down the road and "hoping" something turns up to solve the problem.

We've not built anywhere near enough homes for about 20 years or more, but our population is expanding. We keep hearing of governmental "initiatives" to develop brown field sites, renovate flats above High Street shops, etc., but the amount of homes created by that kind of thing is pitiful compared to what we need. We actually need several "new towns" with proper infrastructure to serve tens of thousands of homes each. We can't rely on lots of small scale new developments on the edges of existing towns putting huge pressure on local infrastructure.

Blairs expansion of universities and his 50% target havn't helped as most university towns have housing shortages caused by "local" homes being bought by landlords and converted to multiple occupancy student lets, plus city centre "brownfield" sites being converted into blocks of student flats. All financed by taxpayers via student loans! Even worse is that those student flats, like holiday lets, are empty for many weeks of the year. Such a shame that they weren't planned to be student lets during the Uni year and then holiday flats in the long Summer holidays - surely some bright spark could have come up with a way to make that work!

The trouble is that most student lets are really shitty and not suitable as nice holiday let’s.

taxguru · 22/08/2023 11:18

ClaraThePigeon · 22/08/2023 11:00

They're doing nothing but building new homes on countryside in my area and it's gotten to the ridiculous stage. We need land for wildlife, they matter too, and also to help prevent flooding. I don't want to see every bit of green land built on. I'd rather have a crackdown on second homes and use empty derelict houses, it's amazing how many there are, than deprive wildlife of even more land, us of nature and increase flooding.

Not to mention that most of the homes they're building in my area are large, expensive and unaffordable for your average family though this is a pretty wealthy area. I'd rather see them build smaller more affordable homes or flats.

Governments for the past few decades haven't invested in infrastructure, so the only "green" space available for homes has had to be adjacent to existing towns and cities, i.e. the "urban sprawl" because of proximity to services and amenities (sewerage, fresh water supplies, power, bus routes, roads, healthcare, emergency services, etc).

If they built in the middle of nowhere, i.e. "new towns", the government would have to pay millions (if not billions) to put on that infrastructure. Hence why all the new estates are on the edge of towns/cities!

Yes, to your points re smaller/cheaper homes, but those usually get snapped up by investors/landlords and turned into student or holiday lets. Councils often don't give planning permission for estates of large numbers of smaller/cheaper units due to local complaints re potential disruption, anti social behaviour, pressure on schools and GP surgeries etc due to too many people, hence why they are more likely to give permission for estates of larger homes with fewer people! Councils are also keener to grant "over 55 only" planning permission for town/city centre developments, maybe because they know that local NIMBYs are less likely to whinge about OAP accommodation. That's crazy, because lots of over 55 flats stay on the market for months if not years due to low demand!

Conversion of empty flats above high street shops is problematic as they're usually very expensive to renovate as single units, often with poor or no direct street access etc. You can't have residents having to walk through the shop to get to the stairs to their flat, can you? Shops aren't going to be keen to reduce the width of their shop front to put in a stair case! It's a lot easier above, say, department stores where you can have a single street access for several flats, but lots of High Street stores are effectively single units. We'd need wholesale demolition or redevelopment of entire blocks to make use of all the empty space above shops - maybe with the demise of the High Street, that will happen!

In reality, we need a multi-pronged approach. Landlords/investors need to be taxed till the pips squeak to encourage them to sell their holiday homes to people who want to live in them. Councils need to restrict planning permission for new builds and conversions to prevent them becoming holiday homes (the opposite of what happens in many places now). We need massive incentives for landlords and property investors to sell or renovate town centre empty properties to be converted to residential. Likewise for brownfield sites. Councils instructed to compulsory purchase of empty homes (i.e. where old people have gone into care or have died). But even with all that, we still need millions of additional homes and for that, we do need to build on greenfield sites!

bagsofbats · 22/08/2023 11:21

I understand the issues for communities and don't holiday in busy locations but how can we holiday in the uk ethically?

As a family we can't afford hotels so have always camped for weekends or rented self catering for a week (please don't make me camp for a week with teens). We prefer to go north, Lakes, Northumberland , Scotland etc.

I don't know how to do this without renting a 2 bed property that may potentially be a home for a family.

taxguru · 22/08/2023 11:23

Sunnysunshine123 · 22/08/2023 11:16

The trouble is that most student lets are really shitty and not suitable as nice holiday let’s.

Yes, I know, we've just been through it with our son. But a lot of the newly built complexes are pretty high standard, especially the blocks that include fully self contained studio flats, that would be ideal for singles or couples wanting a short stay or city break in the Summer. The typical "clusters" of, say 6-8, flats around a communal kitchen/living area would be ideal for larger groups, such as a couple of families with children going on holiday together. I'm not talking about the old fashioned "Rising Damp" style of property - the new build blocks/complexes are well set up, modern, etc. Trouble is that local authorities tend to ban them from being used for any occupants other than students, so the owners can't let them out on a short term basis to anyone else. Another simple fix for local authorities to change planning permissions where the property would be suitable!

It's just criminal that so many properties are left empty for weeks at a time, when there is a dire housing shortage!

RhymesWithTangerine · 22/08/2023 11:30

‘End Air BnB’ would literally be my campaign slogan as any party at the next election.

Wishitsnows · 22/08/2023 11:36

There should be a stop to Air bnb’s. They are not allowed in NY. They ruin tourist areas for a few people to profit.

ClaraThePigeon · 22/08/2023 11:38

I don't think all AirBnBs need to be stopped. Some are just a spare room in someone's home but yes whole properties are very much an issue.

ClaudiaWankleman · 22/08/2023 11:41

Wishitsnows · 22/08/2023 11:36

There should be a stop to Air bnb’s. They are not allowed in NY. They ruin tourist areas for a few people to profit.

They are allowed in New York. They just have to be licensed.

taxguru · 22/08/2023 11:41

RhymesWithTangerine · 22/08/2023 11:30

‘End Air BnB’ would literally be my campaign slogan as any party at the next election.

Yes, it would, but the AirBnB firm would almost certainly sue you for that. We'd need something equally snappy but to encompass ALL the different holiday let platforms, websites, etc. I'm sure it would be a vote winner as more and more people are starting to realise the detrimental effects. A couple of decades ago, there were relatively few places so badly affected, but the problem areas have been increasing, and the "Staycation" years of covid has really increased the severity of the problem, meaning more and more voters are now aware of the issues that "too much" holiday accommodation in residential homes can cause!

BridgeOverTheRiverWye · 22/08/2023 11:47

@bagsofbats , you could stay in a B&B or in a family room in a hotel.
You might have to shop around for a good deal.
A travelodge or similar near me is from £35 a room per night. It's not an ideal destination, but is within walking distance/short train ride of somewhere that is.

Jackienory · 22/08/2023 11:58

Concrete over the greenbelt and create one huge Slough. How wonderful.

taxguru · 22/08/2023 12:01

bagsofbats · 22/08/2023 11:21

I understand the issues for communities and don't holiday in busy locations but how can we holiday in the uk ethically?

As a family we can't afford hotels so have always camped for weekends or rented self catering for a week (please don't make me camp for a week with teens). We prefer to go north, Lakes, Northumberland , Scotland etc.

I don't know how to do this without renting a 2 bed property that may potentially be a home for a family.

We've had lots of UK holidays over 30 years or so. We tend to stay in converted barns etc on farms, which we know are usually restricted to being holiday lets due to planning permission restrictions. (Local authorities usually make it a condition of planning permission that they can't be lived in permanently as homes). So that's "ethical" in a way to stay in those as they're really not accommodations that could be used for locals/families etc, except maybe for farm workers or the farmer's family. Likewise, we've stayed in purpose built "holiday home" complexes in a couple of seaside resorts, i.e. one was a converted railway engine shed, converted specifically into 9 holiday flats - we checked that one out on the local authority website and the planning permission specified it was non-residential and had limits on length of stays! What I like about the "proper" conversions is that there's always the fire/safety regulations, properly installed fire doors, smoke detectors, first aid kits, safety glass in doors, etc.

What I very rarely do is stay in holiday lets in "normal" residential areas, basically homes used as holiday lets. It's not just the ethics of using a home that could be used for locals/families, I just never feel comfortable knowing I'm in a "holiday home" when the neighbours each side are probably residential, living a normal life, going to work, etc. It just never feels right on the few occasions we've done it and I've never really felt comfortable being "on holiday" when everyone around isn't. We try our utmost to avoid "residential" holiday homes as much as possible. I'm also never really convinced that they're fully above board, i.e. probably not registered for business rates, probably not fully compliant with fire/safety regulations etc, maybe not paying tax on rental profits etc. Safety is also an issue, often the internal doors usually flimsy and non fire retardant, often just a cheap £5 smoke alarm from Argos, sometimes old sofas and beds without fire retardant labels, etc.

The purpose built ones we've stayed in just generally give better "vibes" as to being professional, compliant, etc., so I'm more attracted to them, and feel better knowing that I'm not helping to take a home from local people.

taxguru · 22/08/2023 12:06

Jackienory · 22/08/2023 11:58

Concrete over the greenbelt and create one huge Slough. How wonderful.

I think we've established earlier in the thread that over 90% (wasn't it 98%) of the country wasn't built upon. The problem is that our population isn't evenly spread. That's been made worse with the obsession/centralisation into London over the past 30 years or so with successive governments being obsessed with having a "service" industry, centred around London! Lots of countryside outside of the South East, well in fact, lots of run down towns outside of the South East where there is plenty of empty/underused properties just sitting empty, because no-one wants to live there due to the centralisation of jobs in London! If we spread people around more (starting with reversing the centralisation of London), people would be more inclined to live in the regions if there were decent jobs there (not just low paid care, retail and hospitality), and a lot of the housing shortage would be solved! Unfortunately, WFH was a good opportunity to start this, but all the people who've left London have moved to the popular tourist areas, making the problem worse in those areas!

itsallnewnow · 22/08/2023 12:14

We went to a village near Whitby recently and a pub was unable to open evenings due to staff shortages !

kelsaycobbles · 22/08/2023 12:15

If we just allowed one home per family

And at most 1 in 100 homes to be used as holiday lets

Then we would have far less need to build

kelsaycobbles · 22/08/2023 12:20

And perhaps reconsider the whole holiday concept

Multiple holidays per year perhaps are not sustainable? More hotels and camping and less cottages

But that means people need to live where they can be happy and live lives that don't need a holiday desperately- societal restructuring , jobs better distributed around the country , people worked less hard

Namechange62846 · 22/08/2023 12:20

taxguru · 22/08/2023 12:06

I think we've established earlier in the thread that over 90% (wasn't it 98%) of the country wasn't built upon. The problem is that our population isn't evenly spread. That's been made worse with the obsession/centralisation into London over the past 30 years or so with successive governments being obsessed with having a "service" industry, centred around London! Lots of countryside outside of the South East, well in fact, lots of run down towns outside of the South East where there is plenty of empty/underused properties just sitting empty, because no-one wants to live there due to the centralisation of jobs in London! If we spread people around more (starting with reversing the centralisation of London), people would be more inclined to live in the regions if there were decent jobs there (not just low paid care, retail and hospitality), and a lot of the housing shortage would be solved! Unfortunately, WFH was a good opportunity to start this, but all the people who've left London have moved to the popular tourist areas, making the problem worse in those areas!

Very little countryside left in some parts of the south east. Please can we distribute Londoners evenly around the UK to take the pressure off the south east please? (Said jokingly but Londoners have decimated parts of my home county and I'm a bit bitter about it).

Apexroof · 22/08/2023 12:20

GCAcademic · 21/08/2023 20:15

Another reason (other than the extortionate price) to avoid holiday cottages stays in the UK. Having to cook every night because the local eateries can't operate.

The holiday cottages are part of the problem - second home ownership has pushed up prices and those who've grown up there and might have worked locally have had to live elsewhere. Plus Brexit of course and governments/councils not investing in social housing.

MorningMoaner · 22/08/2023 12:36

I agree taxguru. I don't think people round here want all self catering holidays to be banned or anything like that. It's a perfectly reasonable way to holiday and does bring people, and their money, into the locality. Tourism is a really important part of the economy here and nobody sane wants it banned - just controlled a bit more.
We know several farmers who have diversified into the holiday industry and have converted outbuildings, built glamping pods etc and that has boosted their income without using housing that would otherwise have been used by local people.
On the other hand there is a row of terraced cottages in the next village to us that previously were all owned by families who worked locally, sent their children to the local school etc and now I think all but one is a holiday let and that has definitely had a negative impact on village life. The two situations are very different.
We like to self cater on holiday too. I like the freedom of being able to do my own thing, and having a child with serious allergies I generally prefer to cook rather than eat out. But I try to be a bit selective where we book. We also prefer to book purpose built holiday homes or conversions rather than "normal" houses and I try to look for accomodation where the owner is on site or very close by as then it's more certain that it is a local person benefiting from my business, not a second home owner who rents when they aren't there, or an outside company.
I think the issue is that the combined effects of Covid, Brexit and the economic down turn have created something of a perfect storm and there has been an uncontrolled expansion of holiday accomodation at precisely the time there has been a significant dip in the workforce.
I don't have any problem with people wanting to come on a self catering holiday here - if I didn't live here I'd probably do so myself! I'd just suggest maybe people could think a bit more carefully about the property they choose to rent and please try to ensure that you are contributing to the local economy during your break.

BridgeOverTheRiverWye · 22/08/2023 12:38

Jackienory · 22/08/2023 11:58

Concrete over the greenbelt and create one huge Slough. How wonderful.

Slough's OK. There are plenty of flats being built there.
It's convenient for Heathrow and London, and has good public transport and road links.

Staff shortages in tourist areas.
Namechange62846 · 22/08/2023 12:41

BridgeOverTheRiverWye · 22/08/2023 12:38

Slough's OK. There are plenty of flats being built there.
It's convenient for Heathrow and London, and has good public transport and road links.

Can we document this as the first time in recorded history someone has said Slough is Ok please?

Wishitsnows · 22/08/2023 12:43

To be fair there are loads of green areas in Slough, huge parks etc. yes, it is a shithole but it’s not all concrete. That’s about the nicest thing I can say about slough!