Understanding tone of voice with Autism - advice please!

[SilverSpooooons]

I'm almost certain my 12yr son has both autism and ADHD. I was diagnosed with ADHD at 40 and may also have ASD, but I've not been assessed.

My issue is that my son does not seem to pick up on social cues and tone of voice. Most of the time everything is everything is very literal with him.

We've been having real issues with him being very blunt and rude lately. To us, our other child, friends while playing games online, etc.
He doesn't have a big friendship network in person / at school. He's got a best friend, and everyone else is more just acquaintances - he's almost never invited over to other children's houses or birthdays, despite him considering the other acquaintances his friends (they used to be friends and have known each other all through primary and now into secondary school).

I'm worried that his lack of awareness of social cues (invading personal space, boasting without realising his boasting, repetitive phrases, loud sounds and language, saying things in an aggressive tone of voice, etc) are getting in the way of him forming friendships (sadly I can relate to his situation with friends, as I don't really and never really had many because I don't know how to get past the small random familiar chit chat phase with people). One of his "friends" (acquaintances recently told my son that his mum finds my son rude. This broke my heart because my son is often extremely polite and caring. He actively engages children and adults in conversation, but once he gets to a certain level of familiarity / comfortableness with them he can kind of lose control and things go down hill.

For example with us he'll often say something in a loud incredibly aggressive tone - simple things like 'can I have some lunch'. He does not seem to understand that this is not appropriate. He may see language and tone used in particular situations such as TV, movies, everyday life, etc and then try and emulate the tone with zero understanding and awareness of when it's actually appropriate to use that tone.

He also says inappropriate things and then when he gets called out for it or for his tone, etc he will insist he was just joking and that it was 'just a joke!' Again, he doesn't understand what a joke is and why his aren't funny.

It's exhausting trying to reason with him and tell him for the 1000th time that his 'joke' was hurtful and not funny, or just not funny at all. He doesn't seem to understand or learn why. For example we have been battling with him for the past 30 mins to go up to bed. He's just come back in to put his glasses on the table and said "I hate <name of family optician friend> because I have to wear these glasses. I hope his daughter hates him too" So obviously I've stopped him and said what he said was inappropriate, but he's tried to pass it off as "I was just joking!" again. Also just to note the glasses aren't new. And he does actually like them and actively wears them.

I'm getting very disheartened and depressed at having to worry and deal with this 30-40 times a day on top of all the other issues I'm dealing with for him. It's exhausting and embarrassing. Is there any resources such as online videos, websites, books, etc I can use to help me better understand this and how I can support him and help him realise what is and what's not appropriate in particular social situations?

Well...this is a lot.
Let me begin by saying that you are doing amazingly, and that you should not stop telling him what to do. Yes it is tiring, but he will need it.
I grew up with Asperger's (I suppose I still have it) and as a young boy I found it difficult to understand social cues as well.
Immediately, I am going to recommend a book titled "the reason I jump" which is an extraordinary biography of a Japanese boy with autism. (Yes, there's an English version.)

For me, I slowly learnt to understand social cues as I got older, to the point where I am almost "oversensitive" to people. I find it very simple to find out how people "tick" and thus have had many friends. Equally, there were several years of bullying, harassment and hate preceding this. There is a saying "if you meet one person with autism, you have met ONE person with autism", so I cannot promise his development will be anything like mine, but what I can promise is his successful integration into society. Yes, he will need support, and regular checks, for sure. But he will thrive.
For me, the real turning point came about year 9-10 (I would've been 14-15) when people in my year realised that I'm only a human, and, also quite useful.
As I'm sure you're aware, your son must have a very strong interest (I'm deliberately leaving out "fixation" and "obsession" even though it is sort of for us) in something, be it science related or creative. That will serve him extraordinarily well, later in life. People around him will grow up and mature, and grow slightly envious of his knowledge, and/or skill in his area of expertise. It is this obsession that will lead him to pursue his degree or whatever it is he might want. (After all, how many parents can boast having a child who has their goals clearly set in mind?)

Touching on a few other things, like how you mentioned he aggressively says "can I have some lunch". Believe me, hungry teens are difficult, and autism on top of that makes it worse, I'm sure. I don't believe he means to sound aggressive, (I'm sure you know this too, I'll be quick😅) it's just that in that particular moment in time all he can think about is "lunch" or "food". People with autism are often very logical, so his thought process will be along the lines of some programming: (oversimplified, but I hope it helps)

Problem: I'm hungry.
Can I solve this?: No.
What should I do?: Go ask for food.
What meal is it that I'm asking for?: Lunch.

I believe it is that he can think of only lunch on that moment, to the exclusion of everything else which manifests itself more forcefully than intended.
Also, yes, you should tell him what is appropriate but please, please never get angry with us. No matter how many times you tell us, we do listen and we try our best to remember when we can. It's just often our "sheer bloody mindedness" focuses us to an extent that we forget.

In conclusion, (a roundabout manner, I'm sorry), social cues will come with time. Have faith. His boasting is just him expressing himself and being eager to share his excitement about something with his peers. He (well, we) dont always understand that other people are allowed to have different interests to us, and that it's OK. (This is a problem I often struggle with, even now. I have a habit of spouting random facts, which can be irritating if not outright rude.)

I appreciate I haven't given much in way of references, apart from that book. So you don't have to search for it again, it is called:

"The reason I jump".

However, if you or your son needs a like-minded individual to talk to (who can understand and appreciate his enthusiasm for a topic), please do not hesitate to let me know.
I would be happy to help.
All the best, a fellow autistic member of society.

This sounds just like ds13. I was also diagnosed with ADHD late and recently autism! Ds is the same, only has two friends at school that he doesn’t see outside of school, makes inappropriate comments (loudly talking about sex is his new favourite or talking about his how ‘religion is stupid to anyone that listens- my Uber religious family), tells me everything about his day at school (even if he gets in trouble), makes ‘jokes’ that are unintentionally inappropriate and doesn’t realise they aren’t funny. Sounds like classic ASD/ADHD. My son can appear boastful without meaning to as well - he’s sees no issue in saying things like ‘I’m cleverer than you’ or ‘I’m really good at xyz’ if it’s the truth. Honestly OP I’d talk to the senco about an assessment!

Also I recommend Geeks, Freaks and Aspergers syndrome for your ds which is written by a 13 boy with ASD. It definitely made ds feel less ‘weird’.

Some good advice above. My autistic son can be like this. We go back to basics every time he comes across as rude, like speaking to a toddler. ‘I won’t listen to you when you speak to me like that/try again with a calm tone and manners/where’s your please eg ?’ Have you explained to him that he comes across as rude? Im sure you have! I wonder if you and another family member could demonstrate how to ask for things ranging from super polite to rude eg ‘hi mum, I’m really hungry please will you make me some lunch’ (calm soft voice) fo ‘gimme food’ (rude cross voice) . You could also write/laminate a card with the way to ask for things nicely and have it stuck to the fridge for him to study.

@Awoody622 this is one of the best parts I've read here. Is there anywhere I can read about the ultra perceptiveness that some people with autism develop. It feels so familiar and is rarely discussed .

Agree with this.

My ASD child is oversensitive to people's tone of voice and facial expressions. Always has been. But often interprets them wrong.

Beacuse of her social difficulties she always assumes the worst (i.e. you are annoyed/angry with her when you may be just a bit tired or not even that, just watching with a neutral expression).

One consequence of that is being a great masker.

OP my son is the same. We have talked to him so many times about opening a conversation or reading the room. He used to fling open the door and make his demands and then feels like the world is against him cos everyone reacts negatively. He has made improvements, sometimes now he will hesitate and take note that I'm watching TV or whatever then say excuse me and my goodness the difference it has made. He is very forward and will ask to join a group so makes friends really easily, he is also good looking and great at sports so for example if we go to a holiday village he is Mr popular. In his own life he gets dumped by friends all the time as he is a show off, interrupts and argues silly points all the time. He gains and loses a new set of friends about once a year or he is on the periphery of 2/3 groups so he always has a gang to hang around with but no one consistent or close. It's hard but he can get better and learn how to behave, it's achievable.

I get how stressful it is OP.

My son is autistic (they wrote 'used to be called Asperger's ' on his diagnosis).

I completely understand the rudeness and his response of it being a joke. My son will often say this because he is desperate not to be ever told off. He never wants to be in trouble or upset people and a telling off is actually painful for him. We even have an understanding with school that he does not get detention etc. He would never want to go back to school again if he had one. So if I correct him on anything, he usually jumps to saying I'm sorry repeatedly or it was a joke.

I try to correct in a non judgemental way by reminding him to say please or if he's been very abrupt, I would say that something sounded rude rather than accusing him of being rude, if you see what I mean? It's that sort of language of therapy where you say 'when you do X, I feel Y' rather than 'you are wrong/impolite/rude'.

Generally we do ok but he is often worse when he's been around his Dad which he finds stressful (we're divorced). Sometimes we get things worse because home is the safe space to let feelings out.

@Awoody622 your post was really thoughtful and made me smile in recognition.

@Awoody622 I’ve just sent your comment to ds - he says that’s what it’s like, he says what he thinks and then he feels befuddled when someone doesn’t think it’s appropriate. Noah always talks about feeling like a ‘robot’

Does your son think he’s autistic? Would he be comfortable telling his friends he thinks he might be? My ds is autistic and I now recognise traits in a family member who I’ve always found hard to get along with but now I understand her behaviour better it doesn’t bother me nearly as much. I’d always thought she was very attention seeking but now I realise she gets upset about small stuff and change that wouldn’t bother me and it’s probably anxiety based. My ND son doesn’t get upset about feedback he appreciates people being direct. I think you can teach a lot by explaining how NTs think and teaching things as rules NT people follow. Like if we went to Japan there would be different social rules we would have to follow. It’s not that one is right and one wrong, they are just different. Having my son has made me realise how silly and unnecessary a lot of what NT’s do and say is. I find younger people now much more accepting as there is better awareness. I’d encourage him to be open and tell his friends and then they won’t think it’s a big deal. If his jokes misfire or he’s ‘blunt’ they won’t take it personally. If anything my other dc are very protective of their mates with autism / adhd who sometimes ‘get it wrong’ from a NT perspective.

I think it is covered in that book I mentioned "the reason I jump". It speaks of not only personal accounts and experiences but the journey of having autism via short stories. Hope that helps!

He can't change his behaviour but you and others can change how you react to it.

Just take him literally.

Don't read into tone.

Accept him as he is.

This isn't true in my experience of autistic family members. They can and do learn to change their behaviour. It just takes a bit lot longer.

My son is autistic and poor with friendships despite being fun, lively, witty and kind hearted. No play dates, we are a friendly and welcoming family but nothing is ever reciprocated apart from birthday events.

What I realised the other day is that he’s always boasting about his intelligence at school. Arrrgh, I had no idea. And he had no idea it was poor form to boast. He’s also admitted to correcting teachers all the time which was mortifying. He’s quite rule bound so we couch everything in terms of “the rule is….” For social stuff. You could try that.

Some stuff just goes over their heads: It’s like when I had to inform him that inanimate objects have no feelings. He still can’t shut a door firmly in case it hurts the car and he’s 11.

The weirdest thing is that he can’t fake a frown, like he can’t pretend anything facially. But when he was little, he used to do a big grin right before he’d burst into tears. I find him fascinating but I can see why his peers would find him hard to understand. It worries me but we are getting there.

for your sons tone maybe you could ask him to “repeat that again the way you would want to hear it”