Jury service for 9 months???

[Aslockton]

The jurors on the Lucy Letby case had to sit for 9 moths hearing evidence then another month of deliberations.

Where would you find jurors who can sit for 9 months?

If these are retired people, what happens if they have a hospital appointment, family emergency or a holiday booked?

Has anyone served on a lengthy trial or work in the courts and know how choosing jurors for lengthy trials work?

So you earn over 10k per month, but cannot shoulder a 30% drop for 9months?

I never said I couldn't shoulder a 30% drop, I said it would have a serious impact on our finances. I don't think anyone should be expected to take that sort of financial hit for jury duty. There will be people out there who do rely on their income to meet various commitments, yes they probably have savings too, but I don't think they should have to deplete them for jury duty.

Would you actually loose your business? Genuinely asking is this a hard rule? It sounds odd to me. I got a letter to do jury restriction I am a single parent, it was around covid and I responded I had no childcare at all.

I didn't have to do it.

Can only leave a dog 3-4 hours a day. I was thinking if called to a London case although I’m an hour away so maybe I wouldn’t be called for that.

It is ridiculous, a lot of people including me would do a long case willingly but being out of pocket would make me say no.

my dm just wrote a note saying her health wasn’t good enough and they cancelled her service.

You might not lose your entire business but, as I say, if you can't undertake work for clients and they have to find alternative suppliers, they might well not return. Few businesses can afford to lose regular, reliable clients. (I used to a be a hands-on co-director of a small business.)

This article provides pointers for people in this sort of situation.
https://www.qualitycompanyformations.co.uk/blog/jury-service-and-small-business/

I don't think you can get off jury service because you have a dog. That's silly.

@JaukiVexnoydi

Are you crazy? Plenty of people earn 75k or whatever with a lot of it taken up by mortgage and childcare. It’s not that unusual - a self employed plumber can easily be on 60 odd - and, no, except massive corporations maybe, most employers wouldn’t make up the difference out of the goodness of their hearts, because they’d be paying for cover.

I am not crazy. Earning more than £75k puts you in the top 5% of earners and it would be ridiculous for the justice system to have rules that make life easier for them paid for at the expense of the other 95% of the population. It has already been well-established on this thread that normal practice is that people who couldn't manage to serve for longer than a few weeks are generally allowed to give their service on shorter trials instead, so the ultra-wealthy whose mortgage and bills come to more than 3.5 times the median income of the population won't be sunk into penury whatever happens.

I wondered this too op. If I was absent from work I don't know where that would leave me, I don't think they'd sack me as there are processes but a small company might have to take on somebody new.

We just couldn't do it. We have no family support for childcare, the DC's nursery has a two-year waiting list so we can't add extra days, there are no childminders with spaces for long-term kids, let alone ad hoc. We are a two-hour round trip from the main court. Even a week would be a bit of a logistical nightmare! So hoping we never get the dreaded letter 😬

I think that it's an important thing to do, but I also think society is not at all set up to easily allow people to do it and in reality a lot of people don't think 'hooray a chance to do my civic duty' but 'oh for fucks sake'.

When I did jury service I was excused from a long trial due to my work. The judge was quite happy to listen to people and very reasonable about who couldn’t commit to the trial.

As SE people both myself and DH would be screwed.
Of course we have good contingency but 9 months would cause an issue

We were talking about this at work today. If you are a one-person company with clients (hairdresser, driving instructor) you are screwed if you have a nine-month trial as you would lose all your customers... or be cutting hair at 9pm.

@Aslockton but has been said many times already on this thread, the court officials know in advance if the trial is likely to be a long one, and ask for people to volunteer who will not be adversely affected with regards to livelihood or caring commitments.
Even dog care expenses could be covered when I was called earlier this year.

But you wouldn't be screwed? You get a choice as to whether you agree to a long trial. They know which trials will fit comfortably in the usual two weeks of jury duty, and they know which ones will drag out to almost a year. And you get to say no to a long trial.

This!

you wouldn’t be screwed you state you case

But you can’t leave a dog for more than a few hours. And so I’d be massively out of pocket for a long case. I’d say it was due to my work/health whatever - they don’t check your reasons. I’m just saying that they should fully reimburse people - even if they earn £££££ - why should anyone be out of pocket for this ?

Not off jury service completely as most are only 2 weeks - just not agreeing to go on a long case

When I was called earlier this year, the court I attended would pay reasonable dog care expenses. I didn't actually claim but it would have been enough for a 1 hour dog walker.

This is absolutely the hidden problem. I too was very badly affected by my own jury service, and wrote to my MP - there is no psychological support offered - or wasn't to us - and what makes it 1000 times worse is jurors have an absolute prohibition on discussing jury deliberations, ever. Not even to a shrink or counsellor.

We no longer have conscription and this is the last remnant of "the state owns you and owes you no duty of care".

Jury involvement in some form is an important part of keeping the general public on board with the justice system, but boy does it need reform.

I served on a jury for a trial that lasted 3 months. When we were called everyone was asked if there was a good reason why they could not serve on a long trial. The ones I remember were teachers and self-employed.
Luckily it was drug smuggling with lots of defendants (hence the long trial) and not anything unpleasant like the Letby trial.
My employer paid me and I actually made money as the court paid expenses for fares and lunches which I would normally pay anyway. The court day was shorter hours than my job as well so it was all good for me.
I am exempt for life following this.

I'm a doctor, hoping I never have to do a long jury duty. I'm assuming I'd eventually be excused as I would create a rota gap and the nhs wouldn't be able to use and abuse me to my full potential. It would delay me becoming a consultant because as registrars if we miss too many days of work we get held back, so creates future rota gaps as we can't rotate to our next department. I just dread ever being called up.

I don't either. I don't agree with jury service anyway - I know that's controversial but I would get rid of it. We should have qualified people hearing cases, especially ones like this, and nobody "owes" the state anything except to pay your taxes.

I've been called once but back then was in a profession that was exempt.

Doctors/medical staff should be exempt - far more important for them to do their actual job.

Other countries manage just fine without juries.

I was a juror on a case that we were told would be done within two weeks. It lasted two months. One of the jurors barely spoke English so admitted he had no clue what was happening. But he did have a garage to run as he was a mechanic. He told me that loyal customers would see he was closed, go elsewhere and maybe never come back to him for their MOTs and services. He was so worried his entire career would be down the pan. Nothing he could do about it.

Everybody would be missed from their job. I'm not important, ie, very well paid, but we have a mountain of work to get through and one down would add to the load. So while I'm not against the idea of juries, I think they could vet people who are happy to do it repeatedly.

Is that not called a 'Magistrate'? Three lay members of the public who judge on minor cases, remand, etc with a legal expert for advice. Juries are only used for cases where a custodial sentence of over 2 years could be imposed.

Magistrates have to do 13 days a year (for no pay, just mileage and £6 lunch allowance). I know a magistrate who has sat for 50 days this year as they are so behind in cases due to covid. She is retired, so has the time.