Jury service for 9 months???

[Aslockton]

The jurors on the Lucy Letby case had to sit for 9 moths hearing evidence then another month of deliberations.

Where would you find jurors who can sit for 9 months?

If these are retired people, what happens if they have a hospital appointment, family emergency or a holiday booked?

Has anyone served on a lengthy trial or work in the courts and know how choosing jurors for lengthy trials work?

I did a 4 month case. We were a totally diverse group on terms of age professions etc. There was a lengthy process (about a week) to select us and find 12 + 2 spares. Genuine excuses were acceptable eg a proven holiday booking or an overseas wedding , a medical student who would miss exams and not be able to graduate. The rest of us including a TA, a paramedic and a dentist had to do it. We gave dates in advance that we couldn’t do. During it all I had a weeks notice of a job interview and the court was cancelled for the morning to allow me to attend. Another person had said they were waiting for an nhs appt for a day procedure and they were told to keep the court updated and as soon as they had an appt court would be cancelled that day too. So expected and unexpected things were accommodated. There was no way to say I can’t do it I have an important job or
i can’t afford it. The allowances were generous. It was an absolute privilege to do it. It was taken very seriously by us all but as others have said we were only there to listen to evidence and say if we believed it or not. The crimes carried up to life sentences so needed a lot of care and active listening. In fact after we gave verdicts I have no idea what happened in terms of sentencing etc. we could attend but I didn’t want to. I was drained and felt I had done my bit to the best of my ability and that it was up to the professionals after that

DH would be fitting on that line ‘paid well enough that what you are paid on jury duty is much less’.
He doesn’t have a fancy special job. We don’t have massive savings, certainly not enough to cover several months *or years) of jury duty. I don’t work due to disability so his income is our only income. We dont do £5k hols and never have.
And when I suggested to DH that his work might pay him whilst off jury duty for nearly a year, he bursts out laughing. Women don’t even get more that statutory ML there!

I have to say nine if this description of ‘only the really well off would have an issue with it’ just doesn’t fit with our reality.

I’ve mentioned this on other threads.

I posted this on another thread but here we go.

Originally the trial was only meant to last 6 months but they had a lot of jury illness/absences which delayed the trial and stretched it out.

And then because it over ran it’s original estimation they kept getting dismissed for long weekends for bank holidays.

Then there always seemed to be an illness on a Monday morning (I remember people suspecting someone had probably had a boozy weekend and called hung over - pure speculation obviously).

Then they took a week off from hearing the evidence to sitting for deliberations.

Then there was another week off during deliberations because a jury member had personal problems. I think this was the same jury who was eventually discharged because they had personal problems that meant they couldn’t continue sitting regularly.

It also appeared that the jury disagreed with each other and the judge originally wanted a unanimous verdict. So when it became apparent they wouldn’t be unanimous verdicts (except in the case of Babies F, L & O). Once the judge stated that a majority of 10-1 would be acceptable they seem to agree on another 13 (2 not guilty & 11 guilty).

They obviously couldn’t agree on the other 6 cases so again this dragged it out

Also she dragged things out when she took to the stand as she kept asking to take breaks. Especially when she was being cross examined by the prosecution and he seemed to rattle her a few times.

I agree, this quote is completely wild and financially illiterate - a family breadwinner can’t just make up for a 9 month 30% drop in salary because of savings on holidays not taken 😂😂

We earn ‘well’. But not ‘loads’. Definitely not enough to just cope without the normal income for 9months.
Both self employed. One business would close if I couldn’t run and we would have to refund lots of people. We don’t have many savings as we did have but already low after several years of covid/ wedding/ house repairs/ new heating system recently.

I couldn't commit to a long trial for financial reasons. I am a 'high earner' by mumsnet standards, but I only get paid for two weeks by my employer if I am called for jury service. The amount the court compensates jurors wouldn't cover our outgoings. DH doesn't work anymore for health reasons so I am the sole provider for our family. Surely people in a similar position wouldn't be expected to do to a long trial if it placed them in severe financial difficulty. I can't see how putting that stress on a juror would allow them to make reasoned deliberations on the evidence.
If people with booked holidays (far less essential than paying the mortgage/rent) can be exempted then surely people who could potentially lose their home or business should be too. Or are we expected to sell our homes/start again from scratch afterwards?

I also had to laugh at the idea that you could some work fir your company at the end of tte ‘jury work day’ because they are shorter.

I mean. You’ve just spent let’s 6 hours listening very carefully to testimonies etc… around tte death of several babies. You hear about how they’ve died etc… that’s an emotionally draining day. very draining.
Abd then you should go back to do some ‘normal’ work? Come on!

But we have judges who supposedly know the law but give ridiculously light sentences to many offenders.

@Sunsnet but a useless Attorney General or Home Secretary is somehow OK in some people's eyes.

@LadyEloise1 agree about soft judges, glad there is some appeal process against light sentences now.

I'm glad I have never had to be on any long trial, regardless of the case, and hope those who sat on the Lucy Letby one get all the support they need.

Clearly this would be different for self employed people, but if you own your own company it's prudent to pay for insurances to cover loss of earnings in various circumstances.

9 months for me would be 100,000 in direct earnings, my jury insurance covers for up to 5k! And that's not even considering the indirect costs of ongoing loss of business.

And the idea that I could 'save' money by not having a 5k holiday is ludicrous.

Do they pay all expenses? The killer for me would be dog care!

Thank you for all your replies. Very interesting!

Regardless of whether you consider a sentence to be light or not it has to be within sentence guidelines for the crime.

No amount of financial compensation would be enough for the trauma it causes. A close relative of mine still has PTSD from evidence they had to view in particularly gruesome case. I'm absolutely dreading the day I get called up and I pray I get a boring case of credit fraud.

There aren't adequate protections or allowances for the mental health of the jurors. My relative had a psychologist write a letter of appeal to the court for an exemption due to poor mental health and they refused. She is still struggling to recover from the ordeal.

theyll pay for child care and travel and you get a food allowance each day. The childcare rate is at a rate far below what you’d ever get anyone to do childcare for in practise. The travel they’ll only reimburse for the cost of public transport if they say you can get that so if it’s impractical as you need to drop the kids off at school and public transport is only a bus an hour it makes things very difficult and expensive. My employer doesn’t pay for jury service so I had to claim loss of earnings at the full rate which was only about £50 something pounds a day unless you go over a number of weeks and are on a long trial, clerk to court was really funny about my claim saying she didn’t think the court would “pay all that”, I was out of pocket but it was only two weeks so manageable.

I hope the poor jurors get offered free therapy....reckon they will need it after that awful case.I wonder if some people get really messed up mentally by doing jury service, having to listen to such horrific evidence and be so close to such evil people can't be easy.
I really don't understand why this case took to long.....she was arrested in 2018 FGS, its now 2023, the first baby death was 2015, so that poor family have been waiting 8 years for justice to be served.
Really not acceptable.
Beverly Allit (who personally I think LL was copying) committed her very similar crimes in 1991, and was sentenced and locked up by 1993.

@Morph22010 Really sorry to hear you had expenses issues too but glad it’s not just me.

In my experience, they promise you the earth on day one but then try everything to pay you as little as possible.😡

They promise you will be reimbursed within 7-10 days of you finishing your duty. Ha! I’m weeks down the line now and still no sign of what I’m actually owed. I have phoned twice and just been given the brush off so yesterday I sent a very professional, assertive letter to the Court Manager.

I don’t need the money but lots of people would and with me it is a matter of principle now. I have decided to given them a further 14 days to reimburse me and should they fail to do so I will be reporting this to my M.P.

Totally unacceptable!

It was more just a suggestion of how the service may consider things. I'm not stating actual fact.

So you earn over 10k per month, but cannot shoulder a 30% drop for 9months? Where does all your money go?

Aren't people advised to have 6-12months bills saved? Hard for many people, true, but you earn over 10k a month and don't have a cushion?

You aren't kept for 24 hours a day. You do go home at night.

My sister was on jury duty in her early 20s.
It was for a violent crime and my sister stood out with bright blue hair and lots of tattoos/piercings.
One of the criminals from the case saw her on the train and it freaked her out. She asked the courts if there was any protection for the jury and they said no.
This was many years ago so I'm hoping they've changed things now.

A friend of mine was on jury service when they announced that they needed people for a potentially very long trial. A lot of names were called and they spent a whole day going to the judge and explaining their circumstances. She said that she was willing to do it and was cleared by her employer but in the end they had plenty of volunteers and turned her down. So I think there's generally a period of negotiation leading up to a big trial. At the end of the day they don't want reluctant jurors ballsing up the process do they 🤷🏽‍♀️

My just turned 18yr old daughter got called up for jury service and it clashed with first day of university this September. So managed to work out a date when the uni finished for summer term and also her insurance choice when they finished too, and also phoning around trying to get dates from the uni incase she got resits in the summer. So shes in middle of next June when term and exams finishes first week of June. So we are prepared if its a little bit lengthy as resits should she need them are not until end of August. They say 10 days but you can never tell with these things. You would think an education would be a valid reason not to have a lengthy case?
Husband was in Jury service for 4 weeks in 2017 . Could not tell me who because of privacy laws, but afterwards said it was historic pedophile cases (the victims were all adults) and was not pleasant at all.

When I did jury service I let them know that because of work commitments, I was only available for a week. I ended up doing just 4 days (three and a half to be precise)