Lucy Letby Jury

[Cupcakegirl13]

The Lucy Letby case has concluded after 10
months. It’s got me wondering how on earth the jury managed a case of that length ?!
So often on here you see threads about angst filled parents trying to juggle a 2 week jury duty , lack of child care , loss of pay . How would that work over 10 months - the thought as a working mum to three young children terrifies me !
things like being ill, going on holiday , normal life events . Does anyone have any insight ?

You do get some subsidy towards some childcare.

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/_chat/4875223-has-anyone-been-on-a-jury-of-a-very-long-trial?page=1

There was a thread on this yesterday. It would be awful to be on such a emotionally draining trial and for that length.

It's likely the court hasn't been sitting every day for one. I also think they were down to 11 people towards the end. I don't think it was a case of these were just majority decisions. The jurors are likely to have been people who aren't working, etc.

That said, it will have been tough for the jury and I am not surprised the judge discharged them and exempted them from doing jury service again.

And a decent employer will ensure their employees still get the same take home pay. Mine did.

@MotherOfGodWeeFella decent employer doesn't come into it. Fine if you work in the public sector but what about the self employed, the not for profit charities etc?

Yes that’s what I was thinking childcare subsidies and some pay compensation is all well and good for a fortnight but not ten months .
That’s almost a year of a young child’s life you would miss large chunks of if you’d made the decision to stay at home or work part time , then suddenly you’re called up for jury duty of such duration.

It would be extremely difficult. I was on a jury for a week for an emotional case and still think about it 6 years on. Can't imagine how they would feel. Practically as you said, extremely difficult for those with jobs, young children etc.

What happens if you or your child is sick? Can you get a day off?

When I did jury service, we were warned about 'the six week trial' (with only a few days notice) and to get our excuses/reasons in order if we couldn't commit to it. It would have been similar for this trial.

When they did the jury pre-selection, they started with 24 people, which I was one of. People were selected and had to give a reason to the judge if they couldn't/didn't want to do it.

So things that were acceptable were prebooked holidays or planned surgery. One man said he was the main carer for his elderly parents. Someone else said they were self employed and it would significantly impact their business to not work for that long. I was picked and managed to argue that, while my employer had been able to rearrange my work for the two weeks, six weeks was too much as I had commitments with external stakeholders that would be detrimental to our and their interests for me to miss and I had a letter confirming this. The judge reluctantly accepted this. But obviously they needed 12 people who could commit.

Anyone who's got responsibilities for young DC and would struggle with childcare would be able to defer until they were older if needed.

But for those who did serve, it could have been that their employers would get in temps, or give extra shifts/work to co-workers, depending on what type of work they do. But obviously this isn't possible for all, which might be how you'd be excused.

I'd expect in a 10 month trial, there would be some significant breaks, possibly even scheduled, as people working on the trial would still be entitled to statutory annual leave, so you might know that you have a window to go on holiday.

Its not that easy. Either they would adjourn the trial for that day or you would be removed from jury service and the trial continues with 11 people (happened in the LL case). You would be expected to try and find someone else to look after your child (yeah I know, like it's that easy!)

When the jury panel is being selected they can put forward any reasons why they shouldn't have to sit - for example child care that really can't be worked. I've seen potential jurors being dismissed because they're NHS nurses in understaffed hospitals for example. The judge decides whether they should be removed from the pool of jurors for that trial.

I.guess that's the same though if you are employed and your child is sick.

I’ve wondered this. I was excused from jury duty about 15 years ago due to being about to undergo major surgery but the letter said I could not be excused again in future.

Fast forward to now and I am a SAHM, DH works 60-hour+ weeks as a CEO, no family locally whatsoever, my parents live in another country. The reason I’m not back at work is because childcare in our town is non-existent so what the hell would I do if a judge said I could not be excused?

Presumably as CEO of the company, he can take time off and delegate, also be available by phone/email etc so he can look after his children while you served? Or serve on a jury if he was called.

You could defer if the time of year is inconvenient but his company would do whatever they'd do if he was off sick and unavailable.

Or if he's one of those men who can run a company but not look after children he can pay a temporary nanny and you'd get some of the cost back.

Someone I knew was on a 6 month case. They were asked before and they were slightly more lenient than the usual jury service.

I posted this on another thread but here we go.

Originally the trial was only meant to last 6 months but they had a lot of jury illness/absences which delayed the trial and stretched it out.

And then because it over ran it’s original estimation they kept getting dismissed for long weekends for bank holidays.

Then there always seemed to be an illness on a Monday morning (I remember people suspecting someone had probably had a boozy weekend and called hung over - pure speculation obviously).

Then they took a week off from hearing the evidence to sitting for deliberations.

Then there was another week off during deliberations because a jury member had personal problems. I think this was the same jury who was eventually discharged because they had personal problems that meant they couldn’t continue sitting regularly.

It also appeared that the jury disagreed with each other and the judge originally wanted a unanimous verdict. So when it became apparent they wouldn’t be unanimous verdicts (except in the case of Babies F, L & O). Once the judge stated that a majority of 10-1 would be acceptable they seem to agree on another 13 (2 not guilty & 11 guilty).

They obviously couldn’t agree on the other 6 cases so again this dragged it out

Also she dragged things out when she took to the stand as she kept asking to take breaks. Especially when she was being cross examined by the prosecution and he seemed to rattle her a few times.

It's always seen as preferable to have unanimous decisions and no judge will just direct a jury to reach a majority decision instead - the jury via the jury foreperson has to tell the judge they can't all agree and ask for direction - you send a note to the judge via the usher and get called back into the courtroom. At which point the judge will ask the jury if they think they can get a majority decision instead. If yes, then back to deliberations to see if you can. The point is the jury has to try to all agree first.

Happened to me on a jury - a dozen charges on the indictment. Some we fairly quickly agreed there just wasn't enough to find the defendant guilty on. Then we had to go back and debate the remaining charges which were less clear cut. It was not easy at all. After a couple of days it was clear we couldn't all agree; then we were allowed majority decisions and you have to tell the court what the numbers were too.

Actually - I should think the judge will ask how you're getting on if there's nothing from the jury after hours of deliberation.

I was excused from jury duty 15 years ago. Not only was I pregnant with my eldest but I was about to sit my university final exams.

I can't imagine how people with full time jobs or children would manage at all let alone for a trial that long

When DD was called, last year, I seem to remember it was a maximum amount towards wages and/or childcare, something like £60 a day all inclusive? In the end she was allowed not to do it due to the fact that she had a young baby, no childcare and there was demonstrably no public transport that would get her there in time

My dh was called to jury service.

He's a GP and the going rate for locus at the time was £600 a day. It's more now.

They weren't prepared to pay that so he was excused!