Can anyone who knows about flying explain this incident?

[lurchersforlife]

I am a nervous flyer and one thing that has helped me fly over the years is knowing as much as possible about what is going on so I know what to expect. This holiday my flight was delayed due to a technical issue - something I have always dreaded. It's only happened to me once before (I do 3-4 round trips per year) but this time was worse as we were already on the plane. We started off for the runway and a strange sound (maybe hydraulic in nature?) could loudly be heard. Then the pilot said there was an issue and we went back. He said an engineer would come and take a look - obviously my anxiety was through the roof. After about 30 mins he said they were still 'flummoxed' (that was the word he used) but we'd hopefully get going soon. I can't tell you how I felt at that point - I was hoping he'd say we'd be getting off and would need to get another plane, no matter what the delay.

However, less than 10 mins after saying they were 'flummoxed' the pilot said we were sorted and would be on our way once a slot was available! With that we set off for the runway again. I felt sick. We had to wait about 20 mins for a slot, during which time I tried my best not to shout 'let me off you mad people!' During this time the pilot did casually mention that 'everything is fine with the aircraft now.' Obviously I knew that the pilot didn't want to die and of course the plane took off and everything was fine.

The incident has played on my mind though and while I know no one here will know exactly what happened, I would love to hear any insights anyone may have about how normal this type of thing is and how you can go from 'flummoxed' to putting a bloody great plane full of people into the sky within the space of 10 minutes!

I have a friend who is a pilot - she is highly skilled, qualified and experienced but she is, in her own words, a 'plane driver': it's not her job to do the actual mechanical stuff, because that role belongs to the equally highly skilled, qualified and experienced engineers and technicians who come out to fix the issue the highly skilled, qualified and experienced pilot has flagged.

The fact you took off so quickly suggests it was incredibly minor: any work carried out on the ground will have been checked and signed off by multiple people, even in that short period of time.

I think it was a bit irresponsible of the pilot of the plane you were on to use that term, because one of their jobs is to maintain a calm and relaxed atmosphere for their passengers, but I'd say it was just a clumsy attempt at humour.

I was flying home from a European city and the cabin crew (and pilot!) couldn't secure the plane door properly. They spoke to the mechanics at Luton who said it'd be fine and the air pressure would seal it and they'd look at it when we got back. That was a scary flight back!

I had a long wait once due to the plane catching fire, hadn't boarded.
I never knew if the wait was so that they could get another plane or fix the first one. I was a bit concerned but assumed they knew what they were doing, well, hoped they did.

I think I was told on a flight once that if they push back and are still on the ground when then see / hear something unusual they have to get an engineer to check. I bet its the same as most things .. first of all they send out the general engineer to see if its something obvious, if not they loop in the specific engineer or call someone more skilled who can make a diagnosis much quicker. A bit like hospitals but without several months wait in between !

Well done on holding it together, hopefully you can use the experience in a positive way to reduce future anxiety. Good luck.

I’m training for a private pilot’s license at the moment. We apparently do not need to learn anything technical at all. I assume the same is true for commercial licenses, so I’m guessing the pilot genuinely was “flummoxed” - but that the mechanics on the ground very much weren’t. I can’t imagine what the noise was! Glad your flight went well. (I understand your fear. Learning to fly is my way of trying to get over that.) 🙂

I would assume it was something like a flap or access port not closing properly. Pilot tries what he can, screen says everything fine but he can hear it’s not. Go back to gate, get ground crew to check, turns out it probably just needed some oil and was manually closed.

If you’re an anxious flyer, just remember that every airline is motivated by money - their only reason for existing - to put safety first. It’s literally not worth their while to take any risks. Every single step they take, decision made, put safety first.

And for turbulence, the lovely pilot on my most recent flight warned us that we would have a bumpy first couple of hours but not to worry. He said flying a plane through turbulence is like driving a car over cobblestones: it’s bumpy and uncomfortable but you know you’re safe and nothing’s going to happen.

@lurchersforlife

I can't offer a detailed explanation but it was always drummed into us ( I'm an ex-commercial pilot) that you had to be very careful for with announcements (PAs) to the public, especially involving anything technical, and not to use slang or jargon.....and what you describe is a classic example of why....

Minor problems on taxi-out often (but not always) demand a return to the gate for engineering assessment and maybe engineering action.

Sometimes the problem is such that engineer can quickly come up with an assessment, a fix and a timescale, so that's an easy PA to give to the passengers - "Been looked at, it's a quick fix, should be on our way in X minutes".

OTOH sometimes the engineer is briefly and initially a bit puzzled and has to dig deeper into the manuals...delay builds, passengers want to hear something, anything" ....What to say? I'd have been inclined to maybe say "the solution might take a few more minutes than we first thought", and left it at that.

I'm sure in the case described ultimately nobody was genuinely "flummoxed" and that the problem was found and resolved before the aircraft departed again.

I'm not a pilot, a mechanic or an engineer but can think of a number of situations where you know you need to do A, B, C, D & E for something to happen and am flummoxed when I do those and the thing doesn't happen. Often, when I go back through it I realise I missed C.
Or didn't do B fully. Or similar. As soon as you realise it, it's dealt with in seconds.

My husband was a commercial helicopter pilot. He had absolutely no knowledge whatsoever of the mechanics, really. Although they had to do a preflight check, it was pretty basic. Everything else was done by the mechanics in the hangers. I guess aeroplane pilots are the same. They are taught to fly the thing. But wouldn't have a clue how to fix it if something went wrong with the mechanics. Which isn't very helpful I appreciate, but that's why they have mechanics on the ground. It's a bit like a bus driver. He can drive the bus, but if it was making a strange sound, he probably wouldn't have a clue either!

@DeNeushoornHeeftEenHoorn

We apparently do not need to learn anything technical at all. I assume the same is true for commercial licenses,

Yikes, I'm afraid you assume very much wrongly..(and surely you do at least some basic tech on the type you fly for the PPL?).

Commercially at CPL/ATPL level the first thing you do on a type change, before simulators and line flying, is spend several weeks in a classroom learning the basics of the mechanicals of the aircraft you are going to be rated on..electrics, hydraulics, fuel systems etc etc etc.........................................>>>>>>>and are then examined on it.....

You don't go into anything like the depth the ground engineers do in their training but you have to have at least some idea of the machine's basic so you have some systems knowledge which can help out if you have to handle a malfunction and or/can communicate with the engineers when reporting a defect.

@Sandals94

But wouldn't have a clue how to fix it if something went wrong with the mechanics.

I bet he wouldn't be able to fix it, but I bet he knows or knew on conversion, which hydraulic system runs the various systems on the helicopter, what instruments would be lost if a particular AC bus failed..other examples are available.

I don't believe for one minute " He had absolutely no knowledge whatsoever of the mechanics, really"...

Thanks so much - these replies are all so interesting and helpful to me!

The word 'flummoxed' really got to me but it does make sense that they can't go into detail as notimagain explains - maybe they think people like me may start Googling and decide the issue hasn't been dealt with right! It's a balance to get the right amount of detail. I felt this pilot veered a bit towards sounding a bit flippant but I suppose to him it was never a big deal and he wouldn't have flown had he thought it unsafe. Not here running him down as he flew me safely to my destination in the end!

@lurchersforlife

Knowing what to say can be really difficult especially if it's an extended delay or open ended delay..

A lot of people switch off at the first sound of anything technical so you sometimes have to phrase stuff carefully and simply - If I knew we were in for a long delay I'd actually write a bit of a skeleton script and run it past my colleague(s) before going live on air....

Also worth bearing in mind a many flights even on British airlines many passengers don't have English as a first language so you really have to keep it short and simple..

Oh... and you had to try and avoid using "I'm afraid..." "Thunderstorms"..."Fog".....

It's a balancing act...the techies want to know all the details, others don't want to know much at all....

You are welcome to believe whatever you like 😘

Objective reality is any type rated pilot, but most especially somebody flying on a commercial licence, has to have at least some systems/mechanical knowledge......maybe he's being just being very modest.

Can confirm this. I’m sitting next to a commercial pilot right now (albeit on the sofa, not in the cockpit) and yes, he knows about the mechanics of any plane he is type rated to fly.

OP it’s unlikely to be a hydraulic issue if it was fixed so quickly. More likely what happened was the engineer hadn’t arrived by the time the Capt said he was flummoxed and then within that 10mins, the engineer arrived, reset a computer and away you went.

Obviously I knew that the pilot didn't want to die

The pilot and co-pilot would also be acutely aware of the safety of all their passengers (quite literally) in their hands. They will not take risks.

My husband is an airline captain. He would never take off in a plane that wasn't safe. His life is at risk as well as the passengers. I know that sounds blasé but it's just how it is. Xx

All pilots need to know enough about the aircraft systems to trouble shoot on the ground and in the air so that they can give an accurate description of what happened and what they did to identify the problem so that ground crew can identify and fix. Spent many years in helicopters and it could be very interesting when the pilot would try to induce the problem that the aircraft had exhibited so that he could give a better description in the aircraft log.

Oh, notimagain, now I’m worrying! I suspected that at least some of this stuff might be coming down the line... (Eep!)

It might have been the auxiliary power unit (APU) which is an additional engine at the back of jet aircraft which is used to provide compressed air. That can be used for the air conditioning system and also can be used to start the main engines (other methods of starting them are available). On some aircraft it can sound a bit like a dog barking.

https://aerosavvy.com/auxiliary-power-unit/

That engine doesn't provide any useful power for flight so as long as the other engines are OK it's not a particularly mission critical 'engine problem'. Of course it could be something else entirely. Everything I know about aircraft comes from YouTube really so don't rely on me too much :)

There are lots of YouTube videos about APUs and the barking sound they make.

This one is just ridiculous haha

You could contact the airline and say that you'd like to know more about what it was.

I'd agree that pilots wouldn't be that keen to take off unless they were very confident that any problem had been fixed or wasn't going to cause further problems. Reminds me of a story my mum told me of a Terribly Important admiral / captain type visiting a war ship during WW2 and speaking to the young sailors on board, impressing upon one of them the list of other Terribly Important people on board and how he must take particular care to do his job properly so that no harm came to them. He agreed but pointed out that he was also on board and didn't want to come to harm ;) "Yes sir, and then there's me".

Planespotter Jo

For a minute OP, I thought we'd been on the same fight - I had a similar experience very recently, on a flight home from a European city. We took off, then after about 30 minutes the captain announced that there was an issue with a cargo door light being on, so we had to turn round and go back to the airport we'd just left. It took ages of circling, presumably waiting for air traffic control to give clearance, before we landed again (and of course some passengers who'd had earphones in and hadn't heard the announcement were a little confused!). There was also lots of ironic laughter when they played the recorded message thanking us for flying with them and hoped we'd enjoyed the flight.

Once back on the tarmac we had no idea how long we'd be waiting, but it was perhaps 20 minutes before the captain said the problem was fixed and we just needed to refuel. We never found out if the door was actually open (so presumably some danger of things falling out!) or if the door light was faulty. There was a nervous flyer sitting behind me who was quite stressed by it all.

I think sometimes things are fairly simple to fix if you are the right person to fix it, but a complete mystery if you aren't if that makes sense? My brother is an Avionics engineer who has designed parts of lots of commercial aircraft. He has on multiple occasions been called to look at problems which have stumped local staff and has located and fixed them in 10 or 15 mins. It's just that he has the detailed knowledge needed because he is an expert on that particular bit of that particular aeroplane of course, not that the local staff are no good - they probably have much broader knowledge but not the same depth on that specific thing as my DB.
I know it sounds a bit suspect that problems can be fixed that quickly, but particularly if it's an electronic/IT type thing they really sometimes can, and the areoplane wouldn't be allowed to take off if things were still unclear so try not to dwell on it too much.

My daughter is a student pilot. She needs to be able to troubleshoot anything that crops up but the technical side belongs in the realm of the qualified engineers to fix.

I'd imagine there was a minor fault that the pilots had tried to fix and the engineer just walked in and did their magic.

BTW if you were on an airbus, hydraulic noise on taxi is totally normal- google "airbus barking dogs" and see if it sounded like that.

Arghh I hate flying so much!
Can anyone answer me this? Why, shortly after takeoff, does the plane feel like it’s just fallen 100ft?!
OP I was once on a plane that was delayed because one of the engines wasn’t working, you could spot the concerned fearful flyers faces as 4 sets of beady eyes darted about looking at each other over the tops of the seats, we were like meerkats!
I do tend to calm myself down by thinking that pilots don’t want to die any more than we do and it wouldn’t look good for the airline to have a major fuck up so just have to trust in the process. It’s bloody horrible though.