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Original poster

Coming to terms with undiagnosed breech delivery

40 replies

JessH123 · 16/08/2023 15:32

I had my second baby in April this year. With my first I was induced so I think I missed some signs of what natural labour start would be like. Had some twinges which by mid morning had developed into contractions. I was very calm and handling them well so I assumed it'd take a while but given they were every minute and a half we decided to go to hospital.

On my walk to the midwife led unit I was stopping for contractions and then my waters went and my son's feet fell out - undiagnosed footling breech. I waddled into the ward and as soon as the midwives saw it was footling the buzzers went the room packed out and I was put up on stirrups and told to just keep pushing, don't wait for contractions just keep pushing.

My son was born 10 mins later and taken straight for resuscitation whilst they focused on me getting the placenta out. The atmosphere felt tense and for the first ten mins I genuinely thought my baby had died, till my midwife shouted for an update for me. It was half hour before his breathing stabilised and he could come to me for skin to skin. The midwife and Dr were fantastic and I'm so relieved we made it there but four months down the line I'm still struggling to emotionally unpack it. My son is doing great no problems from the delivery but I keep thinking what if we didn't make it in time, why didn't I think to go earlier and why wasn't it picked up.

I had concerns about my son's position pre birth because my bump looked a bit odd and I was getting alot of pain on my cervix which I now know was him kicking me. I was told by my community midwife he was head engaged even though she detected his heart beat above my belly button and I even joked it felt like he was kicking my cervix down. I questioned the position but she was adamant head engaged. It didn't occur to me he could be feet first but I feel let down it wasn't detected. As a side note, would you report the midwife for not detecting it? If it should have been picked up I'd want to flag it if additional training is needed because I feel we were lucky and the next person may not be.

Anyway, anyone been through similar? Have you come to terms with it now? I have asked for a labour debrief which my midwife says she's requested but I still haven't heard anything and she's not coming back to me about it. The health visitor did offer to help push it through so I will take her up on that.

OP posts:
ChazsBrilliantAttitude · 16/08/2023 15:56

DS1 was an undiagnosed breech and I ended up with an unexpected CS. They only realised when they had a feel and realised it wasn’t his head.

I did feel a bit upset at the time but many years later it no longer feels important. I think one thing has helped for me is speaking to other mums and reading accounts on here. You realise that a lot of women don’t have the birth they were expecting and look back thinking thank goodness it worked out ok in the end.

The easy no surprises birth is not as common as I thought before I had children.

A birth debrief sounds like a good idea because it sounds like everything happened so quickly you haven’t really had time and space to process all the feelings.

Spirallingdownwards · 16/08/2023 15:58

Babies can turn very last minute and can even be manually turned so it isn't necessarily that the midwife missed it.

DuploTrain · 16/08/2023 16:03

Are you in England OP?
If so, look up NHS Maternal Mental Health Services - they’re specifically there to help with trauma caused by pregnancy or birth. Hopefully your GP can refer you if you have one locally.

Interested in this thread?

Then you might like threads about these subjects:

3rd trimester Childbirth Families General pregnancy
x2boys · 16/08/2023 16:04

My son wasn't breech,but he had the cord wrapped a round his neck.three times and he wasn't breathing ,he wss rushed off for.oxygen Of course its traumatic but the main thing is Your son is doing ok.,maybe a debrief will.help

NeverDropYourMooncup · 16/08/2023 16:06

The only reason DD was known to be breech was because I'd felt her head under my ribs when leaning forward over something and it tipped back. Her backside was securely wedged in what felt like a perfect cephalic presentation and when I laid down for examination, her head rolled towards my spine where it couldn't be felt.

After I'd convinced the consultant and it had been confirmed on scan, I became a weekly learning opportunity for students where they'd be sent in to examine me and then they'd be told to try again with me standing up and leaning forward. Quite entertaining for eight weeks until my planned section. It's that difficult to feel sometimes, even if you're a tiny 19 year old like I was at the time, never mind if you're obese.

They didn't do anything wrong in my opinion. Sometimes babies are tricky like mine.

littlebirdieblu · 16/08/2023 16:14

When I had my twins, baby 1 came out head first, at this point a doctor tried to hold my 2nd baby in place to stop her turning, but she was too quick and came out feet first. Sometimes things just happen. I'm so glad your son is ok though and I hope you can move on from this experience.

CoachBeardsJane · 16/08/2023 16:17

Report the midwife for not having X-ray vision?

Magpiecomplex · 16/08/2023 16:18

If you believe my maternity notes for my second child, they flipped end for end twice in two weeks. That didn't happen - my regular, very experienced midwife had correctly identified which end was which in a transverse lie, then she went on holiday and the replacement midwife found something that felt head-like where she thought it should be and decided that was the head. It wasn't. My first had turned late on and I definitely would have noticed if the second had done it twice in quick succession!

Tippley · 16/08/2023 16:20

You can request a birth reflections meeting, this will be a different midwife who goes through your notes with you and you can ask any questions or for explanations for things. Some don't find it useful but many do.

x2boys · 16/08/2023 16:30

CoachBeardsJane · 16/08/2023 16:17

Report the midwife for not having X-ray vision?

Midwives are trained in feeling how, he baby is positioned.

NeverDropYourMooncup · 16/08/2023 18:32

x2boys · 16/08/2023 16:30

Midwives are trained in feeling how, he baby is positioned.

Show quote history

And sometimes that baby is more like a loaf of bread wedged in a slot, so it feels identical to one that's pointed downwards wedged in the slot the preferred way round. It happens without incompetence being a possibility.

anywherebutthere · 16/08/2023 18:36

My son was breech. Luckily a planned c-section for other reasons, but even 5 mins before my c-section they felt the baby and said he was head down.
Good job it was a planned section. He came out like a little frog with his feet by his shoulders.

coxesorangepippin · 16/08/2023 18:37

DS was only seen to be breech whilst I was 5cms dialited. Ended up with a section

I had had various check ups beforehand, followed by a doctor etc , so how come it was missed!!?? He was obviously a breech the entire time, I used to rest a brew on his head, it was so round!!

Mingomang · 16/08/2023 18:40

Breeches are missed every day, by midwives and doctors and consultants, on VE and on abdominal palpation. It’s not a matter of competence normally, it’s just a function of what is being asked of a clinician.
If it’s helps, undiagnosed breech at term will be a trigger for completing an incident form, and the risk team will review that form and if necessary trigger a bigger investigation into the practice of the CMW.

Original poster
JessH123 · 16/08/2023 18:43

Thank you everyone. I was hoping perspective from others would help me get out of my own head, so that helps thank you. DuploTrain yes I'm in England, if I'm still struggling with it after the debrief I will certainly look into that thank you. I'm quite confident the debrief will be enough for me to close the door on it, as it was so quick and I was in shock after so many things I don't know because I didn't think to ask. Just don't know when that's likely to happen. Hopefully the health visitor will be able to chase it up for me.

I appreciate babies can move last min but I'm certain he was breeched for some time. All the weird movements I was getting for last few weeks made much more sense when I knew he was footling. He's also been freakishly strong on his feet since birth. It surprised me with all the questions I asked my midwife and where heartbeat was detected that it didn't raise a flag with her. I don't want to get anywhere in trouble but that's why I was torn if I have a social responsibility to flag it with someone. Perhaps it is just one of those things and it's hard to tell a breeched position.

OP posts:
Original poster
JessH123 · 16/08/2023 18:46

Thank you Mingomang that's useful to know that there will be a check and they can make their own decision if anything else is needed to look into.

OP posts:
Mimilamore · 16/08/2023 18:59

OMG this took me back... 1982, breech TWINS. Diagnosed 2 weeks prior to delivery but query about Caesarean ignored. One baby knees first, one extended breech. I wanted somebody to shoot me and take me away from all the panicky faces. We all survived but twin 2 born blue and resuscitated. I was young and thought the medical profession knew what they were doing. Stayed in hospital for a week and then back home to my 3 year old.
On reflection I had/ have ptsd and relive it 41 years later. I later went on to have a 4 th child and at last felt in control.
If you feel you need support find it don't be like me....

Original poster
JessH123 · 16/08/2023 19:38

Mimilamore wow that sounds very frightening, glad to hear it got better for you after the birth of your fourth. I imagine leading up to another birth experience must have felt quite triggering. I will reach out for help if I find I'm still struggling to close the door on it after the labour debrief - I do feel bit better after this post reading about how others have dealt with similar experiences

OP posts:
GrannieMainland · 16/08/2023 19:46

I'm so sorry that you had such a traumatic birth. My breech baby was picked up in a scan at 36 weeks - my hospital offered 36 week scans routinely and increasingly other places are as well as there's good evidence it can identify babies who are breech (or have other risk factors) in a way that an external examination never can. If you want to push for change, it might be worth writing to your hospital trust to ask if they would consider changing their routine scan schedule like other hospitals have?

Thelonelygiraffe · 16/08/2023 19:50

Contact PALS at the hospital yourself to arrange a birth debrief. I wonder if the midwife didn't want you to have one so is delaying??

I'm not surprised you're traumatised after that. But a good birth debrief should help.

You could also contact your hospital to flag this up as midwives may well need extra training.

Congratulations on your ds!

Thelonelygiraffe · 16/08/2023 19:55

Spirallingdownwards · 16/08/2023 15:58

Babies can turn very last minute and can even be manually turned so it isn't necessarily that the midwife missed it.

If a baby turns last minute, you feel it!

And OP has not said that she has an ECV, so that's not relevant here.

modgepodge · 16/08/2023 20:04

I think this happens more often than you might think. A friend of mine only found out when in labour, her daughter was born with an oddly shaped head which she was told was because she had been tucked up under her ribs for weeks and weeks. She had been examined by multiple midwives/drs all of whom said baby was head down. Apparently one, at about 36 weeks, commented it felt like a breech, but then looked at the last observations and saw it was head down and said she must be mistaken. It’s like confirmation bias, once one person had said head down, all the others followed suite.

Newbornmum23 · 16/08/2023 20:05

I know how you feel, it's a trauma and it plays on your mind afterwards, not helped by the hormones of post partum life. I had my son 3 weeks ago today, and had concerns that he was back to back based on what I could feel, feet sticking out my stomach etc, and also his huge size based on scans. It was all played down at each midwife appointment, she was a very lovely lady but I was worried as it was an IVF pregnancy too and many trusts don't let you go overdue as the placenta can fail etc.

So I end up 11 days overdue, no sign of him coming because in hindsight he wasn't engaged on cervix but on my back, and my placenta started tongive in and I was induced for suspected pre eclampsia. Pessary in on saturday, contracted in agony with him on my back and then had to wait til tuesday for a room on labour ward. Again I asked about his position and had an epidural due to the pain of it, which didn't work unfortunately, and was told don't worry he'll turn as he comes, he won't be that big you're not that tall (husband is 6 foot 4). 8 hours painful labour later he's in distress and I can't get beyond 3 cm because he's not engaged properly, so have an emergency c section. Out comes a very shocked 10lb boy, who wouldn't stop crying for hours afterwards.

My community midwife apologised to me at my next appointment as really I should have had an elective at due date with his size and position. I wanted to give birth naturally but not at the expense of his health and mine! I burst into tears when she said sorry, it had really traumatised me with also being on wards for 6 days. Its 3 weeks in now and I don't feel anywhere near as bad about it, helped to talk bluntly about it. My poor husband was also very shell shocked and wants the debrief, not sure if I do. Hope it helps you and your feedback can improve things.

Blarn · 16/08/2023 20:19

I had two head down pregnancies and the pain on my cervix right up to labour was awful! It can be hard to judge, I think that's one of the reasons why there is a push to get a third scan in all pregnancies.

You and your son are fine but you had the fear that your son had not survived shortly after giving birth, of course that's upsetting and is going to be playing on your mind. Chase up the birth debrief. Lots of women have feelings of guilt and worry and 'what ifs'. I did after dd1 was which was quite traumatic but also after dd2 who was quick and easy! But I still stressed over what could have gone wrong or what I could have done better. Ridiculous looking back but very real at the time.

Missingmyusername · 16/08/2023 20:20

Did the sonographer not pick it up? I know they can turn last minute, but as you say the bump felt odd…
I was told to have an ECV and declined, you can’t always feel the baby move either. The consultant won’t know- hence undiagnosed breech- at least that’s what I was told. The baby can just move back to breech which can be dangerous. I was also having braxton hicks - plus I’m older (didn’t know I had bh until I was monitored).

My tum felt really hard under my boobs, painful even. DD was a known breech and I could feel the feet poking me either side of my ovaries (that’s what it felt like anyway).

OP your baby is here and safe and well- thank goodness. So it’s really the trauma affecting you, what may have happened? Perhaps talking this through with a counsellor would help.