Autism Vs eccentric personality

[BlooDeBloop]

Context: A health care worker suggested my 12yo DS may have asd. He is socially extremely awkward at school but copes in his way and brushes off taunts etc. There are some anxiety issues we deal with. He is certainly quirky. Many of the males on my side of the family can fairly be described as eccentric or oddball (...actually this is a good description of me too 😆).

Question: what is this autism spectrum that potentially includes my DS at one end and on the other includes non verbal or highly violent people needing full time, respite care into teens and beyond? Or even the more common presentation we see on TV, the rocking, meltdown prone, OCD type of person. I just don't see the connection. Depression presents on a scale but one end looks like the other end just more extreme. ASD is highly variable. Indeed, this is reflected by the commonly quoted 'if you've met one person with autism, you've met one person with autism' i.e. no two cases are the same. If none are the same how can we be sure we're dealing with the same thing when we diagnose and talk about autism?

Can anyone explain?

Perhaps we don't need doctors to classify us into medical labels?

Hiw can they access help otherwise?🙄

Not all ASD break down at school. But lots do. Why do special schols and EHCP’s exist? Just because you or people you k ie didn’t struggle doesn’t make it the norm for ASD.

Maybe there are a whole bunch of us at large in society, living our odd, eccentric lives? Perhaps we don't need doctors to classify us into medical labels?

A diagnosis of ASD requires that:

Symptoms cause clinically significant impairment in social, occupational, or other important areas of current functioning. (DSM 5)

The symptoms result in significant impairment in personal, family, social, educational, occupational or other important areas of functioning. (ICD-11)

Who gets to decide what "significant impairment" means?

I agree OP, it does feel as though professionals are desperate to label any child who is not completely normcore.

Maybe there are a whole bunch of us at large in society, living our odd, eccentric lives? Perhaps we don't need doctors to classify us into medical labels?

Exactly.

One way to close an age is to give it a name that sticks. I propose that we name the mid-twentieth century The Age of Disabling Professions, an age when people had "problems", experts had "solutions" and scientists measured imponderables such as "abilities" and "needs".

Ivan Illich Disabling Professions

I guess selective mutism is a significant impairment. Because they can’t you know, TALK to people.

How significant does it have to be to not be ‘normcore?’🙄

@CurlyhairedAssassin you wrote what I couldn't be bothered to write 😆. It is entirely my point. People are often weird. DS has the same sandwich every day without a peep. But I can offer him another meal or we can eat out and he's happy to eat something different. I however would rather like my eyes out than eat the same thing every day. I LOVE variety and find DS weird (he says I'm weird too so that's alright 😆). However, food was just an example of where DS has routines in his life. My mum would eat at any time of the day or night, often go bed at weird times, wake up at weird times but my family are the opposite. We all like regular meal times and sleep times. None of us enjoy changes to this. We could all be asd but I doubt it. If we all are then 30% of the population is and thus how meaningful is a neurodivergence that encompasses such a large number?

BlooDeBloop

You wouldn’t get a diagnosis for eating issues as you‘ve described though.

My children have autism and 1 has spent most of the past 3 years in and out of hospital due to her Anorexia fuelled by her neurodiversity. My son’s restricted food diet is causing illhealth.

God I wish mumsnet would see this thread for the goady, inflammatory nonsense it is. These threads are tedious and are on here every week. Why do some get deleted and others get left up?

I have to say I find the tone of the OP quite ableist.

So to get a diagnosis a significant impairment must be demonstrated. Yet another deviation from the simple triad model. I'm glad you quoted this as it brings to my mind again the whole DSM issue. This is a book made by American clinicians and has its controversies. As a sceptic of the American health system, I can't help thinking the categories are partially designed to help pharmaceuticals to make profits.

But when people are being assessed for diagnosis - it’s because there’s something causing a problem.

You could live your whole life fine with one kidney, without ever knowing you only had one. You’d only be in hospital finding that out if you were having issues.

People aren’t being rounded up for scabs to check for a missing kidney anymore than people are rounding up people who may or may not have autism but are living their life with no issues.

I really don't understand what the problem is. This type of argument pops up on MN with depressing frequency and it makes no sense to me. It usually goes something like, "These days everyone who's a bit weird gets an ASD diagnosis. But I'm a bit weird and I'm fine with it! Why do we pathologise being a bit weird?" and that's just… not how this whole thing works. Yes, occasionally a member of the public might mention that a trait or habit somebody has can be a sign of autism, or might even over-confidently say that they think someone's autistic based on that. So what? People make suggestions of all kinds of bollocks. Genuine clinical diagnoses require far more than that. If you're weird but fine then you won't seek, won't get and don't need an ASD diagnosis.

What do you mean, "yet another deviation"?

The "triad of impairments" is one way of thinking about the differences present in autism, though not the only way. Those impairments need to be significant in order to be, well, significant. Insignificant impairments don't matter because they're insignificant.

I’m one of a few people I know who has had someone ‘helpfully’ tell me they think I’m autistic because I’m gender non-conforming, can’t be arsed taking part in office politics and have a range of personality quirks such as predilections for certain types of clothing.

I found this highly offensive.

those of us who are eccentric and not autistic should also have our voices heard.

@BlooDeBloop what pharmaceuticals are there for Autistic people?

BlooDeBloop · Today 11:45

They may well have it as a requirement to demonstrate the child is experiencing severe difficulties at school.

On other notes, I'm not at all sure it is inevitable an asd child would necessarily have a breakdown at school. If I am asd (as some here have diagnosed me), then I didn't break down. I know of an adult who so clearly matches what I have in my head as Asperger's it's unbelievable yet he's led a full productive working life, is married, owns own home, and never had a breakdown. Maybe there are unhelpful, unrealistic stereotyping going on here with respect to what a PP described as class 1 asd (known 5 minutes ago as Asperger's)? Maybe there are a whole bunch of us at large in society, living our odd, eccentric lives? Perhaps we don't need doctors to classify us into medical labels?
Show quote history

Define breakdown.

It is common to fall to pieces during secondary if you have autism but it’s not a given. I did and both my children did. We all have a diagnosis. You didn’t but don’t have a diagnosis and don’t feel you need one. Not getting your point.

And yes I now have strong suspicions re this thread.

@YetAnotherSpartacus I was slightly offended when someone told me I was autistic and I’m an excellent masker with few outward signs. Turns out they’re probably right, and I have an autistic child. Feel free to feel offended, but it doesn’t mean they’re wrong.

You're not wrong that the DSM needs to be read within the context of the US healthcare system, though it's more to do with coding for the purposes of insurance and reimbursement than the pharmaceutical industry. But the ICD is published by the World Health Organisation for the following stated purposes:

- allows the systematic recording, analysis, interpretation and comparison of mortality and morbidity data collected in different countries or regions and at different times;
- ensures semantic interoperability and reusability of recorded data for the different use cases beyond mere health statistics, including decision support, resource allocation, reimbursement, guidelines and more.

@YetAnotherSpartacus that sounds like a pretty rude person. I’ve known some who like to do that- a fair few being teachers- and I wonder why they do it. It doesn’t help.

I’m curious about two things if you don’t mind me asking. I’ll preface my questions by saying that I was certain that I was not autistic until suddenly all of my DC were autistic and I had to wonder where that was coming from. My DP is no more obviously autistic than me so that’s not a straightforward answer. Currently I feel I have no clue if either or both of us are autistic.

Questions: were you offended to be thought autistic, or just by the socially-inept way the person spoke to you?

And, how can you be sure you’re not autistic? As you can see from my context, that’s a genuine question I am grappling with for myself.

Thank you for your reply. I'm sorry to hear about your children's issues. We have a food avoidance diagnosis in the family and it's heartbreaking.

The reason I mentioned the food was a PP said asd was all about the triad. I didn't know about it. They said it meant three characteristics shared across the spectrum one of which I didn't recognise in my DS, repetitive behaviours. They said his food preferences meant he is likely asd. So introvert + ham sandwich + low social iq = asd.

Based on all the posts especially from people with children like mine I'd be surprised if DS didn't come up as asd if we pursued a diagnosis. But how meaningful is a diagnosis? Do we want to do that? Would it bring something of value to DS if we did? I'm finding this part of the discussion very useful and interesting.

Disordered/restricted eating is part of the ASD profile.

Significant impairments are relative aren't they. For example, my DS has significant impairments in the sense that his social IQ is vastly outside the norm. It will certainly impact his future, life, career, friendships. Some would say that it is detrimental. However, DS gets on with his life quite happy in many ways. He would say it's who he is, shrug. Of course I can't predict the future and he might suffer more later on.

But how meaningful is a diagnosis? Do we want to do that? Would it bring something of value to DS if we did? I'm finding this part of the discussion very useful and interesting.

It opens the door to therapy and ASD services support. Things like sleep,sensory issues, anxiety and rigid behaviour. In young children it can remould the brain whilst it is still plastic.

It opens the door to support at school, so they don’t get into a situation of struggling. Would you expect someone who used a wheelchair not to have support or adjustments?

This makes me so angry. My DD is struggling hugely sue to ASD and you dismiss it.