Young children in cafes etc

[PuzzledObserver]

Last week DH and I were enjoying a coffee in a cafe in a south coast seaside town (in case that’s relevant, which it probably isn’t). In the UK, anyway.

To one side of us, a couple of tables away were two mums, each with a child of about three, and a third adult. The children were being a bit boisterous, running round and laughing - but occasionally screeching/screaming. I don’t know why that was, I wasn’t looking. But it happened repeatedly, and I didn’t notice any attempt by the parents to shush the children. They were, at times, very loud.

To the other side of us were three or four older people, mid seventies plus. I became aware of a bit of muttering going on among them about the children. At one point, one of the kids screeched very loudly, and one of the older people said quite sharply “oh, shut up!”

I don’t know whether the mums heard that, and there was no response or further comment so far as I could tell.

I’m just wondering how others would assess the situation? Obviously I can’t remember back to when I was three, but based on my parents behaviour from when I was old enough to remember, I can’t imagine they would have allowed running around and screaming in a public place like that. We would have been told to sit still, distracted in some way (given something quiet to do) and if all else fails, taken outside. I’m late 50’s, btw.

Parenting has changed, naturally, and much of it is for the better. But while a three year old still has limited self control, they surely do have some, and can be taught/shown how to behave at different times and places? Could/should the parents have tried to quiet the children in that situation? Always accepting that if the child has special needs, which you can’t tell, then it could potentially be more difficult to do so.

My DCs were born early noughties and no, they were not allowed to shout, scream or run around in places where it might annoy adults - cafes, restaurants, libraries, GP surgeries etc. This was before smart phones etc. I took books, stickers, small toys. They sat in a chair, pushchair etc. If they were getting restless, as small children obviously do, they were taken outside to run around, or if that wasn't possible we went home.

There is always entitled parents. I would have brought things to occupy my children and they would have been told to be quiet and distracted and then removed if not able to sit at the the table. My sister’s youngest was ‘high spirited’ and a shock to her as she is a very good early years teacher. She would take him to a quiet cafe for only 10 mins at a time and when he could cope with that and behave appropriately she would go for 15 mins the next week.

Yesterday we were at the library and some
parents were just letting their kids pull stuff of shelves and not put them back. I was gobsmacked. My kids are 4 and 7 btw so I can remember the toddler years and mine would have been made to help tidy up.

A bit of noise is to be expected. Adults can be just as bad really!

Running around where people have drinks is an accident waiting to happen.

I have a high energy toddler who at present cannot sit still for 5 minutes.

if I want to go for a leisurely coffee, I go to a place near me which has a nice play area. I know I can always retreat there with my coffee in a takeaway cup if alone, or me/DH can take turns running back and forth there. It’s restrictive, but that’s what needs to be done.

If we go anywhere else, she is strapped into a pram and I know it’s a quick pitstop.

What you describe is seriously inconsiderate parenting. Children should not be allowed to scream and run around in cafes. If they can’t sit with a babyccino and a sticker book for 10 minutes, you need to strap them into a pram or go to a kid-friendly cafe like I just described.

I used to be a nursery teacher in another life. A gentle, hippy dippy one. I know what kids are like. But letting ‘kids be kids’ is for the park, not a cafe with hot drinks and people relaxing.

Some kids are more difficult to keep calm than others, but generally I think parents should choose their environment with a bit of consideration.

I take a different view for parents of ND kids though - they can't be expected to spend their entire life at the park etc.

DH and I were in a ‘nice’ pub for dinner or Saturday night - it’s not a kid friendly pub.

I live in a touristy area and it’s full blown holiday makers at the moment, so everywhere is a lot busier than usual, I expect busyness and noise, but I’ve never seen anything like it. There was one large table with a group of kids that were shrieking, running around, one was climbing on the window sill right next to our table, one kept bumping into one poor woman’s chair as he was running round their table. The staff were constantly returning the kids to their table while the parents were just sat there chatting. They were eventually asked to leave but they kicked up a massive fuss about it.

My kids are young adults now, so I’ve been there, one of mine is ND, I do get it, but they were never allowed to behave like that. We took colouring books, puzzles, sticker books, stuff to keep them occupied quietly. We took them outside/home if they were kicking off or crying.

We picked places considerately. There are plenty of very kid friendly pubs and cafes round here with outdoor and indoor playgrounds where kids can let off steam if you want to sit and chat. There’s pubs on the beach where they can play and run around, pubs that put on kiddy friendly entertainment.

There needs to be a bit of consideration all round - I expect noise to a certain extent, but running around screaming is not on. I go to pubs and restaurants that aren’t kid friendly because I don’t want to be surrounded by kids running around shrieking.

A bit of noise is fine running around is not. We were in a pub on holiday the other week and a boy about six was on his scooter! Scooting round all the tables. We were just leaving thank god. Some parents are ridiculously indulgent.

Could/should the parents have tried to quiet the children in that situation?

Is this a serious question?

What's the alternative? Surely you don't think kids should be allowed to run around cafes, where there's hot drinks and plates being carried?

There weren't so many cafes and restaurants in the 70s so it didn't come up as an issue so much. It wasn't common for children to be taken to them. Less awareness of maternal mental health and perhaps also more community and family support so mothers were less in need of places to mix socially to maintain their mental health.

Having said that, I remember causing havoc in restaurants as a child in the 80s!

Yes, it was a serious question.

I mean, I think the parents should have done their best to keep the children a lot quieter than they were….. I don’t mean totally silent, that’s not realistic. And no, they should not be running round in a place like that. But they made so little effort, I suppose I was wondering if that was considered normal these days.

I was half thinking I would come back to the thread and find half a dozen people complaining about the world being so unfriendly to children, who are only doing what is natural for them. I’m glad to find I didn’t.

Mine are 5 and 3, a cafe is a relaxed place. No to running around, no to screaming, yes I would give them a few extra minutes to calm down on being given out to before removing them than I would in a more formal setting.

Oh and meant to finish with saying the vast majority of parents here seem to agree - kids are allowed to be kids but no one is screaming and running is unusual.

Honestly, I think both groups could have made an effort.

The ‘oh shut up’ was not ok. I doubt they’d have said that if adults had been noisy.

Should the parents have made an effort? I believe so. There are plenty of ways you can distract a 3yo but I think it starts with teaching the child to stay at the table when at home, which I know many don’t think is realistic 🤷‍♀️🤷‍♀️

Is it always possible to take a quiet 3yo that stays seated Wo making noise etc? I don’t think so but then I’d have left if it had become bad/gone on for too long. It’s always harder when you are with other people and you know you leaving will have an impact in them (or they’ll judge you for doing so)

I was in a busy cafe recently and the only table left had a toddler running across the seats, being noisy and playing. To be honest he was just being a 2 year old but I was gobsmacked by the behaviour of the adults with him. I asked if the table was free to which they replied ‘yes but you’re not taking up all of those seats so he is fine there playing’. There was a spare seat on their table but they would rather the child sit playing at my table? My daughter is very shy and didn’t like it and wouldn’t sit down and settle (she is nearly 4 and sits very nicely when out) I asked if she could sit opposite to me to which they replied ‘ok he can sit next to her then’ I sat there gobsmacked and when they walked out they had the cheek to accuse me of being rude! I am very tolerant of small children as I have my own but I thought this was too much, I wondered what they would have done if it was an elderly couple wanting to sit there.

Wow AMD1985, that was rude of them! I would have replied, 'perhaps your child could sit at your table', and put my jacket on the extra chair.

I'm older now, so no little ones, but I didn't take them to cafes if they couldn't sit still. I would meet at a friends house or a park to chat so little ones could play.