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Original poster

Should we get sister sectioned?

25 replies

StevenB1 · 14/08/2023 00:58

Hey guys,

Sorry if this is the wrong place to post this, wasn't sure where would be suitable.

Will try to keep a long story short, sister who is 46, has had a hard life, abusive relationships, had children took off her, one ended up in mental institute, one got adopted, one wants very little to do with her.

She's a heavy alcoholic, self harms frequently, and has argued with, accused and alienated most of the family from around her. Recently she only had myself and my girlfriend, and my parents to help her. She got a new flat, we paid for appliances, parents helped her move, put up furniture etc and so on.., on Monday she came back to where we live (town) when she's not supposed to because of ex partner and court order, went to her favorite pub, apparently got into a fight, black eyes and a broken hand etc...parents asked why she was back there and she kicked off over the phone calling them everything under the sun.

Tonight she messages me, calls me, completely drunk, saying my dad has accused my girlfriend of stealing £7000 from them, dad's having an affair etc, all lies and ended up with me blocking her after she threatened to send some people around with my 4 year son at home etc.

Where we do we go from here? She has no interest in helping herself and I can only see it getting worse, should we be contacting the crisis team etc to try and get her sectioned for her own good as well as ours?

I should add she's been sectioned before and been released for the trouble she caused.

Thanks so much for any advice and reading.

OP posts:
Toddlerteaplease · 14/08/2023 01:03

Unfortunately I don't think being an alcoholic is grounds for sectioning. If she doesn't wish to b helped there us little you can actually do.

continentallentil · 14/08/2023 01:06

It doesn’t sound like there would be any grounds for it, so even if you got it as an emergency so she can be assessed, it would be quickly lifted.

Have you ever been to a AA type family support group? It’s really hard dealing with this stuff I know.

Original poster
StevenB1 · 14/08/2023 01:07

Toddlerteaplease · 14/08/2023 01:03

Unfortunately I don't think being an alcoholic is grounds for sectioning. If she doesn't wish to b helped there us little you can actually do.

I was thinking more a long her mental health, I.e threatening kids, fabricating lies, and probably more. Although I will agree these are also signs of a very bad alcoholic lol. Thanks

OP posts:
Original poster
StevenB1 · 14/08/2023 01:10

continentallentil · 14/08/2023 01:06

It doesn’t sound like there would be any grounds for it, so even if you got it as an emergency so she can be assessed, it would be quickly lifted.

Have you ever been to a AA type family support group? It’s really hard dealing with this stuff I know.

Unfortunately not, she has no intentions of getting help. This has been on and off got about 5 years now. She will self harm then not seek help after it is offered, counselling etc, will routinely go to the hospital only to walk out before any treatment.

Supposedly hears voices telling her to self harm or telling her that they're the ones telling her what to say...but won't seel any help from it, and when it's offered by us is routinely met with most of what I posted above sadly

OP posts:
PangramAddict · 14/08/2023 01:10

My understanding is that someone can only be sectioned if they present a serious risk of harm to themselves or others. I believe the threshold is very high. From what you have posted, it doesn't sound like she would meet that threshold. Does she have support from community mental health and a named CPN? That would be a good place to start if you believe she is in crisis.

Original poster
StevenB1 · 14/08/2023 01:12

PangramAddict · 14/08/2023 01:10

My understanding is that someone can only be sectioned if they present a serious risk of harm to themselves or others. I believe the threshold is very high. From what you have posted, it doesn't sound like she would meet that threshold. Does she have support from community mental health and a named CPN? That would be a good place to start if you believe she is in crisis.

None at the moment. She was offered regular counselling recently from the women's refuge she was in due to self harming etc..think she went to maybe two sessions before she refused to go back.

OP posts:
GrumpyOldCrone · 14/08/2023 01:12

I have so much sympathy for her, because it sounds like she’s had a really rough time. But if you have a small child, his safety has to come first. I don’t know if you can get her sectioned (seems unlikely based on my previous experience of people being sectioned) but I think you’re within your rights to go no contact with her. I hope things will get better for all of you eventually.

Original poster
StevenB1 · 14/08/2023 01:13

GrumpyOldCrone · 14/08/2023 01:12

I have so much sympathy for her, because it sounds like she’s had a really rough time. But if you have a small child, his safety has to come first. I don’t know if you can get her sectioned (seems unlikely based on my previous experience of people being sectioned) but I think you’re within your rights to go no contact with her. I hope things will get better for all of you eventually.

She has had a hard time, but she's also had a lot of help that unfortunately gets thrown back at us.., usually she doesn't involve me so tonight is a first for that which tells me it's getting worse..., as you said though, I've blocked and deleted her number etc, especially with threats towards our son.

OP posts:
Fishhhh · 14/08/2023 01:14

Has she had a welfare check of some description? Crisis team or police if urgent emergency and high risk to others/herself. Otherwise contact her GP or her mental health contact to explain that she’s previously sectioned and seems to be escalating again.

If the threats to you are meant, call the police to report them.

Silkierabbit · 14/08/2023 01:14

I would contact crisis team and let them decide. That sounds very difficult for everyone.

User3735 · 14/08/2023 01:14

It's really not how it works. I've dealt with friends/family who are in psychosis and gripped with delusions and unable to be left alone as they are a risk to themselves or others and the mental health crisis team still have never helped. They won't step in for an alcoholic. It's not like it is on TV.

Original poster
StevenB1 · 14/08/2023 01:15

Fishhhh · 14/08/2023 01:14

Has she had a welfare check of some description? Crisis team or police if urgent emergency and high risk to others/herself. Otherwise contact her GP or her mental health contact to explain that she’s previously sectioned and seems to be escalating again.

If the threats to you are meant, call the police to report them.

She had regular welfare checks whilst at the women's refuge, probably about 4 weeks since she left there..but she was still having trouble there as well at the time.

Not sure if we could possibly refer back to them to see what they would suggest if I'm honest as they will have reports from doctors and counselling sessions

OP posts:
Original poster
StevenB1 · 14/08/2023 01:17

User3735 · 14/08/2023 01:14

It's really not how it works. I've dealt with friends/family who are in psychosis and gripped with delusions and unable to be left alone as they are a risk to themselves or others and the mental health crisis team still have never helped. They won't step in for an alcoholic. It's not like it is on TV.

Unfortunately it got to a point where the refuge etc would call the crisis team to refer her to them but they refused on occasion due to the number of times it had happened and that she never followed up with any help offered

OP posts:
LordSalem · 14/08/2023 01:18

Its looks like it's at the point that you've all tried to help her so much and she still won't sort herself out. Go no contact, all of you. Block her number, any social media, everything. She's alienated all of you and she didn't even do right by her own children.
Cut her off completely. She's out of your hands now, the age she's at. Leave it to the police etc to deal with her, none of you deserve any further abuse when you've only ever tried to help her. You have to protect your own family at this point. Any abuse she brings down upon your child can be diverted if you act now. Enough is enough.

Original poster
StevenB1 · 14/08/2023 01:18

Quick thanks to you all for your quick replies as well. Much appreciated

OP posts:
Original poster
StevenB1 · 14/08/2023 01:20

LordSalem · 14/08/2023 01:18

Its looks like it's at the point that you've all tried to help her so much and she still won't sort herself out. Go no contact, all of you. Block her number, any social media, everything. She's alienated all of you and she didn't even do right by her own children.
Cut her off completely. She's out of your hands now, the age she's at. Leave it to the police etc to deal with her, none of you deserve any further abuse when you've only ever tried to help her. You have to protect your own family at this point. Any abuse she brings down upon your child can be diverted if you act now. Enough is enough.

I'd like to think she would never follow up on any of her threats towards us, but this is why we have blocked her etc, I can only hope this is rock bottom for her and she can work herself back up.

OP posts:
NewName122 · 14/08/2023 01:37

They won't section her, from what you've said. Hope you manage to get support though.

NewName122 · 14/08/2023 01:41

I had someone completely out of it, delusional, seeing monsters and taking their clothes off infront of me for hours. I was worried to leave them. Thought they would be sectioned but no, they were just advised to go home. They didn't and apparently just had a phone call from some mental health team, which they missed.

EleanorLucyG · 14/08/2023 02:32

You can't section her. There's no grounds to. Being an alcoholic is a lifestyle choice (some will argue it's an illness, I disagree. There's a choice to go down that road instead of asking for help with whatever the causes are and another choice to stay on that road instead of accepting help when it's offered). She has to want help. She won't change otherwise. There's nothing you can do except protect your own sanity, family and energy by staying away from her. If you're finding that hard, contact Al-Anon who will support you (they're for the families, not the alcoholic themselves).

OhcantthInkofaname · 14/08/2023 02:38

You need to simply walk away.

BrindleAbyssinianGuinea2 · 14/08/2023 02:47

EleanorLucyG · 14/08/2023 02:32

You can't section her. There's no grounds to. Being an alcoholic is a lifestyle choice (some will argue it's an illness, I disagree. There's a choice to go down that road instead of asking for help with whatever the causes are and another choice to stay on that road instead of accepting help when it's offered). She has to want help. She won't change otherwise. There's nothing you can do except protect your own sanity, family and energy by staying away from her. If you're finding that hard, contact Al-Anon who will support you (they're for the families, not the alcoholic themselves).

Coping mechanism not lifestyle choice. No different to self harm. But I agree with everything else you have said about wanting help re: drinking.

HoppingPavlova · 14/08/2023 02:51

You can’t just ‘get someone sectioned’, and from what you have described it’s not likely to happen at present.

clarebear111 · 14/08/2023 04:44

My MiL was a functioning alcoholic for many years. She refused help too. She has ended up with a form of alcohol related brain damage/dementia and is now in a residential care facility. Her short term memory has completely gone and it’s unlikely she will ever be able to live independently again. Just to flag, she is in Ireland, where the health and care system is different.

You mention that your sister is hearing voices which may be a precursor to similar issues. It may be worth exploring this with some of the organisations mentioned in previous posts.

That said, it sounds as though you and your family have tried so hard to help your sister. The difficulty is that you can’t control what your sister does. You can only control what you can do, and you have what sounds like a lovely young family to consider. It is not sustainable to go on picking up the pieces, sadly.

I wish you all the best in moving forward. Fwiw, my MiL still talks about going to the pub in her current condition, and she hasn’t had access to alcohol since around January this year. The physical side of the addiction has long passed but the psychological impact is not going away, as far as I can see.

Original poster
StevenB1 · 14/08/2023 11:36

Thanks for your replies everyone, much appreciated.

As of now we have blocked all contact, social media and phone, parents have done the same.

Will update if anything else happens.

Thanks again!

OP posts:
Oioicaptain · 15/08/2023 22:22

It's really not a lifestyle choice. No one would chose to live like that. It's a coping mechanism (usually as a result of me tal health issues), initially, but then the alcohol physically alters the chemical structure of the brain long-term so that it does become for intents and purposes a 'mental health and psychological issue'. To dismiss it as a choice simply heaps more shame and blame on those who already have extremely low self esteem and feel to blame, so it's neither helpful not useful.

Unfortunately though you cannot section someone for being an alcoholic, even though that alcohol use can put them or others in immediate or grave harm. And unfortunately, even with preexisting mental health issues, the alcohol muddies the water and makes sectioning far less likely.

I would contact her crisis team/GP and explain that her behaviour is escalating and that she has previously been sectioned. Talk to Mind for advice if you need it. That's all that you can do really.

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