NHS banding and pay rises

[FurbleSocks]

As someone outside the NHS looking for a role within the NHS I have some questions if that's OK. I see for example band 8a says:

Band 8a

< 5 years' experience £50,952
5+ years £57,349

Does experience outside the NHS count towards the years of experience or does it only count in a band 8a role within the NHS?

Also say you start on £50,952. Do you only get a pay rise after 5 years of experience in that role? Or do pay rises work a different way in the NHS?

I'm confused about what I might start at and also if I might be stuck at that wage for 5 years with all the cost of living increases. I would be part time anyway so wouldn't be earning anywhere near £50,952. NHS wisdom would be gratefully received.

Depends on the relevance of your experience. They might start you at the 3rd point, so you would move to the top of the scale after 2 years.You will get inflationary pay rises each year,.

You start on the bottom unless you have an extremely robust case not to, then you get an inflationary rise every year but jump up in the band after 5 years. At most bands now there are no pay points, just top then bottom.

In my experience the only time to negotiate starting higher is when you accept the job, otherwise it's 5 years before you get a proper pay rise.

You start at bottom of band automatically. After say 5 years or whatever the timeframe is for that banding, you go to the top and remain there. Inbeteeen you generally get % uplifts for cost of living. Its almost impossible to start a band at the top. It has to be earned, especially with such tight budgets in the public sector

You still get an annual pay rise which is applied to the entire agenda for change system.
Previous experience tends not to count unless you are moving from a similar role at the same band. It's worth a try negotiating at the outset to start at a higher point.

@LadyLolaRuben i started at the top, but I had a strong case as to why. It was nerve wracking though, waiting whilst they submitted a business case as to why I should.

Out of interest what role will you move into at band 8 when you haven't worked in the nhs before? I used to be band 8 as a matron.

There are only two bands at 8a. You’ll start at the bottom where you’ll stay for 5 years and then jump to the top. Experience means time served at 8a. You will get whatever cost of living rise the government agrees to award every year.

There are some specialist scientific roles where someone could enter the NHS at band 8A, but I imagine it would be at the bottom of the band unless it's a hard to fill post and the local managers are able to successfully push through a persuasive business case. But that can be quite rare.

But then the bands are revalorised each year by the cost of living increase, so you'd move up with this for 5 years and then get moved up to the top of the band, where you'd say (with cost of living increases) unless you were promoted again to 8B.

I’m also curious as to which role you would move into at band 8a , having never worked in the nhs before. I’m going to hazard a guess that it will be as a business manager or other none clinical role. I’ve worked in the nhs for over 20 years and people being recruited into these roles are often unprepared and ‘blag’ their way through the first few years. Usually you start at the bottom of a band 8a and move to the top after 5 years, with no increments in between. There is a cost of living increase annually which is always below inflation.

Could be one of any number of non-clinical roles eg finance, digital, hr, estates etc. I've known Exec directors come in at VSM without any previous NHS experience!

To start higher than the bottom of the band you generally need to be able to evidence that you've recently been earning higher than that level and they will usually match it (but extremely unlikely to go any further than matching).

I did this and I had to start at the bottom of 8a. I asked if it was possible to argue my previous experience should count but they said no chance and not to waste my time. Just about to get to my 5 year anniversary in the next few months but not sure I'll make it as I'm bored to tears in the job. People are lovely but the organisation is inflexible.

Yes it's a non clinical role with 15+ years relevant management experience in health and social care but not in the NHS.

The issue is I am on £50,114 but part time prorated 26/35 rather than 26/37.5. Adding the 12.5% compulsory pension contribution rather than my current 6% would leave me with less take home each month.

But I don't want to go through the hassle of applying, interviewing and hopefully being chosen if there's zero chance of being on the higher band. I literally can't afford to take a pay cut and I can't up my hours because of childcare. All of this is my problem not theirs but I don't want to waste their time or mine.

I'm used to there being more bands within a range so being able to start halfway up rather than only the bottom or top with nothing in between. So all your advice from the inside of how it really works is very very useful thank you.

You can go in at a higher pay point if you can demonstrate you have the relevant experience (even if outside of the NHS). I went in at top of my band (non clinical, corporate services role).

trusts are all different. i would need to contact her depending on the post u would be interested in.

And this right here is the reason the NHS has a recruitment problem.

Getting rid of the three spinal points between the bottom and top of the band can only be a disincentive to both external and internal candidates. Who wants all that extra hassle and responsibility for the £60 pcm net between the top of band 8a to the bottom of band 8b for the next 5 years?

I'm thankful this thread has given me hope that a conversation about starting higher wouldn't be completely pointless.

I’m a top band 7 with OLW in a clinical role. If I go for a Band 8A post I’d only get about 1k more a year and might have to pay more pension contributions meaning I could be worse off. Not sure it’s worth it just to hang in there for 5 years

This is why the unions messed up massively in agreeing to lose the middle pay point. I hope this year's negotiations will amend this, but don't hold out much hope. I read somewhere that 70% of people would be stuck at the top by the end of 23/24

@IIdentifyAsInnocent Yeah I agree. Also there should have been a bigger gap between the top 7 and bottom 8. A4c is a mess. Little incentive to go for promotion. In the 2022 pay round I had a pay cut after the pay rise because I went into a different tier for pension contributions so had to pay arrears and then take home less pay each month.