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Original poster

Embarrassing- Multiple PCNs- I have no option but to pay, do I?

126 replies

RoadSignFool · 05/08/2023 20:27

I have name changed for this as it’s so embarrassing.

Long story short, last week was taking my son to an activity camp in an unfamiliar part of London. I managed to drive down a prohibited street twice a day for 4 days and have been issued with a £65 fine for each time, so a total of £1300.

I checked the driving route the night before day 1 but didn’t realise that a small section of the route it gave me was closed to cars between 7 am and 7pm every day.

It’s completely my own fault, the signage was clear in retrospect but I misunderstood it. However since (unlike a parking fine where you get a ticket on the windscreen) there is a delay between violation and notification, I didn’t realise I’d breached a rule until I’d done it 20 times.

Has anyone ever been in a position like this and succeeded in having the fine reduced at all? (Bulk buy discount, ha ha)

I can’t see why they would, to be honest- seems a bit silly to expect them to give a discount to people who break rules repeatedly!

But just thought I’d ask…

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Original poster
RoadSignFool · 05/08/2023 23:41

*wrong

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guzzleandstuff · 05/08/2023 23:43

I've got done for this. For twenty years I went down a local-ish road. Suddenly I'm not allowed to - but only during certain hours - and when I'm on the bus - which I often am - we go down it. And not going down it means driving in heavier traffic the long way round. Easy to forget.
It's purely money making.
I don't go down the street now but I got caught in the early days.

Cocopogo · 05/08/2023 23:45

Similar thing happened to me but only 3 times so no where near the figure. Got no sympathy and had to pay it all within 14 days or it went up further.

Interested in this thread?

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Driving & parking
endingintiers · 05/08/2023 23:47

We did the exact same with a similar sign, they had changed the roads and the driver (not me) didn't realise. We paid one then appealed the other as there's case law which states that you shouldn't be fined twice in the same 24 hours for the same offence. It was written off. I used driving parking fine forums to find the right reason

NoSquirrels · 05/08/2023 23:47

Definitely write and grovel. I’d think you have a good chance of getting at least some cancelled.

I’d swallow my pride and tell the holiday club too. They should warn people they can only approach from X direction or they’re risking a fine.

crazeekat · 05/08/2023 23:48

they have to give u an option to pay it monthly. u need to nicely contact them and come to an agreement. if u don't pay and they take it to small claims court the court will
give u this option as well so it is in their best interests to give u this opportunity.

Floordilemma · 05/08/2023 23:51

I'm pretty sure there is a local fb group, where they are often shouting about the fines/ angry about the road closures...there may be some in there that can help you. It's...local name of area + folks (assuming I'm right about the area - it sounded very familiar from your first post.

endingintiers · 05/08/2023 23:54

Sorry, we had two fines within 5 minutes of each other. If I can find the legal challenge we wrote I'll paste it here. It's not about grovelling, it's about referring to case law. At the very least that would reduce it to 5 fines instead of 20, there may be a basis to say that you weren't aware until you received the letter that you had broken the restrictions so should only be fined for 1.

Spellofmathematics · 05/08/2023 23:54

i think this is in Chiswick?

Original poster
RoadSignFool · 05/08/2023 23:58

FFS. I’ve just read the “Make representations” bit of the FAQ and it seems that I can’t even write a letter in my own name because DH is the registered keeper of our family car, not me. So he has to write a fucking letter that says “my wife is an idiot who can’t read signs and is very sorry”. How bloody humiliating.

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Original poster
RoadSignFool · 06/08/2023 00:00

endingintiers · 05/08/2023 23:54

Sorry, we had two fines within 5 minutes of each other. If I can find the legal challenge we wrote I'll paste it here. It's not about grovelling, it's about referring to case law. At the very least that would reduce it to 5 fines instead of 20, there may be a basis to say that you weren't aware until you received the letter that you had broken the restrictions so should only be fined for 1.

Thanks. I had a quick Google and can see that there are examples of people being able to push back on being fined for parking more than once in 24 hours if the car has not moved, but not driving in prohibited areas.

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Original poster
RoadSignFool · 06/08/2023 00:01

Spellofmathematics · 05/08/2023 23:54

i think this is in Chiswick?

No, Hackney.

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FiddleMinger · 06/08/2023 00:31

I used to work in this area. Councils have cancellation criteria and may cancel for a first offence. In your case, they may reduce the PCNs to one per day. Or, if you’re exceptionally lucky let you pay only one PCN due to them being issued so close together - principal of proportionality would kick in. I suggest you write a polite letter that includes the phrase.

It’s not necessarily correct that tickets not issued by humans. CCTV operators enforce locations remotely, then manually process each one to trigger PCN issue by post. Box junctions and bus lanes were always favourites - plus no entry, as they’re ‘quick wins’ that don’t need minimum observation period (eg. like ‘no loading’ contraventions do). Hope that’s helpful and good luck.

Original poster
RoadSignFool · 06/08/2023 00:38

FiddleMinger · 06/08/2023 00:31

I used to work in this area. Councils have cancellation criteria and may cancel for a first offence. In your case, they may reduce the PCNs to one per day. Or, if you’re exceptionally lucky let you pay only one PCN due to them being issued so close together - principal of proportionality would kick in. I suggest you write a polite letter that includes the phrase.

It’s not necessarily correct that tickets not issued by humans. CCTV operators enforce locations remotely, then manually process each one to trigger PCN issue by post. Box junctions and bus lanes were always favourites - plus no entry, as they’re ‘quick wins’ that don’t need minimum observation period (eg. like ‘no loading’ contraventions do). Hope that’s helpful and good luck.

Thank you very much.

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LemonJuiceFromConcentrate · 06/08/2023 00:44

You poor thing OP, what a massive annoying pain in the backside. Good luck

FFF3 · 06/08/2023 00:54

If this is in Fulham, appeal the fines and say the signage is not clear / there are no warnings beforehand. If it happens to be where I think it is, the council write off the fines all the time because they know they’re totally trying it on in that area.

FlamingoFloss · 06/08/2023 00:56

I think this could be classed as a continuing offence and therefore you may be able to get a reduction

weirdoboelady · 06/08/2023 00:58

Pepipoo all the way, and do this BEFORE you appeal.

FiddleMinger · 06/08/2023 01:06

By the way, don’t make untrue claims in your letter. There is a strict and rigorous process before councils can enforce a location by CCTV. If you say the signs are/were unclear, the officer will need to review the CCTV footage and they may be less inclined to apply the cancellation criteria if claims are found to be untrue. They might enjoy writing back to you and include an image of your vehicle and the sign… and say that they can’t cancel as your claim was unfounded.

Batalax · 06/08/2023 01:07

Good luck op.

Original poster
RoadSignFool · 06/08/2023 01:22

FiddleMinger · 06/08/2023 01:06

By the way, don’t make untrue claims in your letter. There is a strict and rigorous process before councils can enforce a location by CCTV. If you say the signs are/were unclear, the officer will need to review the CCTV footage and they may be less inclined to apply the cancellation criteria if claims are found to be untrue. They might enjoy writing back to you and include an image of your vehicle and the sign… and say that they can’t cancel as your claim was unfounded.

Oh my goodness, no I wouldn’t dream of doing that. The signs were clear. I’m actually a solicitor, lying about this sort of stuff would get me struck off.

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Sweetsweetlike1111 · 06/08/2023 01:45

I got a ticket a couple of months ago when taking my daughter to an audition in an unfamiliar part of London. I literally just followed the directions given to me via Apple Maps (somehow it lead me through a road I should not have driven through), and I misunderstood the signage. A few weeks later I received a ticket from Hammersmith and Fulham borough. I contested it (sort of). I did it via the online link and was just honest about what happened, and they cancelled it at their discretion. So it's worth trying to talk to them, the worst they can say is 'no'

Embarrassing- Multiple PCNs- I have no option but to pay, do I?
Ladyj84 · 06/08/2023 02:14

I'm really sorry but if you've done this 20 times driven past a very clear sign with very clearly worded info then I would question your observance as a driver lol

Original poster
RoadSignFool · 06/08/2023 02:22

Ladyj84 · 06/08/2023 02:14

I'm really sorry but if you've done this 20 times driven past a very clear sign with very clearly worded info then I would question your observance as a driver lol

What are you sorry for?

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Original poster
RoadSignFool · 06/08/2023 02:36

According to an FOI request that I just found online, between Feb 2022 and Feb 2023. 21,008 PCNs were issued at the same spot where I got 10 of mine. They earned Hackney Council £1.1 million.

No figures for the spot 200m away where the camera clocks people coming in the opposite direction, but I bet it’s similar.

Clearly I am not the only unobservant motorist around that neck of the woods.

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