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The Tories come out as PRO climate change

118 replies

noblegiraffe · 31/07/2023 11:14

WTF. A series of policy announcements that position the Tories as pro-climate change because they think it won them Uxbridge?

This tweet by Grant Shapps announcing new gas and oil licenses to spite Just Stop Oil is just gobsmackingly awful.

It's not Just Stop Oil who are saying that we can't do this, it's international experts.

"Fatih Birol, the IEA’s executive director and one of the world’s foremost energy economists, told the Guardian: “If governments are serious about the climate crisis, there can be no new investments in oil, gas and coal, from now – from this year.” And that was 2021.

While we watch mainland Europe experience terrible wildfires and storms, with the memory of our own awful heat wave last year fresh in our minds, the government comes up with what they think are funny tweets about how the UK is going to actively contribute to a worsening crisis?

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2021/may/18/no-new-investment-in-fossil-fuels-demands-top-energy-economist

Chris Skidmore, a Tory MP who actually cares about climate change has issued a statement condemning this policy being announced while parliament is on recess and has called for an emergency debate. https://twitter.com/cskidmoreuk/status/1685948524033130498?s=61&t=U9XrcF693-JpMxeIueYG7g

The Tories come out as PRO climate change
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DatumTarum · 31/07/2023 12:40

sashagabadon · 31/07/2023 12:39

Energy security matters too and is part of the mix. We don’t want to rely on other ( possibly hostile) countries for our energy plus it just outsources the emissions to another country.

You can't get much more local than a wind farm, solar panel or heat pump.

Hmmph · 31/07/2023 12:43

People of Uxbridge, hang your heads in shame. If Boris Johnson wasn't bad enough, NOW look what you've done.

Tbf, I think the vote in Uxbridge was (a) very close and (B) far more nuanced than being anti-green. I understand why people with older diesel cars are struggling with the speed of implementation of this policy. That doesn't mean they're not worried about climate change.

Also, these licences aren't guaranteed to supply the UK as far as I know. They are private companies. They'll extract the oil and gas and sell it to the highest bidder to make profits.

CloudyMcCloud · 31/07/2023 12:46

AP5Diva · 31/07/2023 11:57

New oil and gas licenses do not mean for or against climate change. Oil and gas wells are not infinite and bottomless, they do run dry. Since 1973 we have been actively reducing both our production and consumption of oil as part of efforts to combat global warming. It is also important to note that in the case of oil, there are literally thousands of uses for it that do not contribute to climate change at all. So we will always need some oil even when at net zero.

From an all time high of 2,74700 BBL/D in January of 1985, we have cut oil production by a whopping 73% to 751 BBL/D in March of 2023.

We are weaning ourselves off oil as a fossil fuel. Our consumption reached an all-time high of 2,228 BBL/D in 1973 and is currently at 1,317 BBL/D

As you can see, we can produce quite a bit more oil and still be reducing our dependence on oil as part of the weaning process. We would only be reducing our reliance on the import of oil, and guess what domestically produced oil has a lower carbon footprint than imported barrels of crude oil.

So these licenses are actually part of fighting climate change once you look at the data underpinning them.

We have also been reducing our GHG emissions to fight climate change much faster than the vast majority of other countries on the planet. So while the process is slow, we are not moving slower than average.

Thanks for posting this, good to see facts

DatumTarum · 31/07/2023 12:50

Hmmph · 31/07/2023 12:43

People of Uxbridge, hang your heads in shame. If Boris Johnson wasn't bad enough, NOW look what you've done.

Tbf, I think the vote in Uxbridge was (a) very close and (B) far more nuanced than being anti-green. I understand why people with older diesel cars are struggling with the speed of implementation of this policy. That doesn't mean they're not worried about climate change.

Also, these licences aren't guaranteed to supply the UK as far as I know. They are private companies. They'll extract the oil and gas and sell it to the highest bidder to make profits.

The data; www.hillingdon.gov.uk/article/11240/Uxbridge-and-South-Ruislip-by-election-2023#cookie-consents-updated

If you make rough tallies of those parties likely to be pro/anti ULEZ there's nothing in it.

Sunak is trying to make the GE a culture war referendum.

Daftasabroom · 31/07/2023 12:52

@TonTonMacoute no, you're wrong. Gas fired power stations does just materialise out of nowhere either.

All electricity generation is amortized over the lifecycle of the facility and renewables are cheaper than fossil fuels.

noblegiraffe · 31/07/2023 12:54

No, I don’t think Grant Schapps was able to counter the persuasive propaganda of JSO. The new oil and gas licenses do not go against the advice of international experts, their advice is no new investments, as in no increase in burning fossil fuels

This is FASCINATING.

'No new investments' now doesn't mean new investments like the ones just announcement by the government, it means something else.

And it's actually fine for us to open up new gas and oil fields, it's just not ok for anyone else to do it.

And us opening up new gas and oil fields doesn't destroy any messaging to other countries that they cannot open up new gas and oil fields because it is internationally understood that the UK is special.

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noblegiraffe · 31/07/2023 12:55

And Grant Shapps deliberately positioning the government against climate activists is just fine 👍

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Middlelanehogger · 31/07/2023 12:55

Britain reducing our investments in domestic energy production/exploration is simply a complete waste of everyone's time when other countries are aggressively increasing their energy needs. Pursuing (paper) net-zero at all costs simply puts us in a much more vulnerable geopolitical position for no meaningful gain for the planet.

If we want to "punch above our weight" internationally which I agree we should do, we should use our educated population to research techniques like carbon capture which could help us actually reverse/control the impact humanity has had and will continue to have on the planet.

Oh look, that's exactly what they announced that they will do as part of this policy announcement.

CloudyMcCloud · 31/07/2023 12:57

Middlelanehogger · 31/07/2023 12:55

Britain reducing our investments in domestic energy production/exploration is simply a complete waste of everyone's time when other countries are aggressively increasing their energy needs. Pursuing (paper) net-zero at all costs simply puts us in a much more vulnerable geopolitical position for no meaningful gain for the planet.

If we want to "punch above our weight" internationally which I agree we should do, we should use our educated population to research techniques like carbon capture which could help us actually reverse/control the impact humanity has had and will continue to have on the planet.

Oh look, that's exactly what they announced that they will do as part of this policy announcement.

I agree with this sensible post, I didn’t know about carbon capture though but I’m glad to hear it as some invested scientists have been saying it’s the way to go.

noblegiraffe · 31/07/2023 12:57

And the Tory party also setting themselves up as 'pro motorist' in the same week isn't at all part of an 'anti-green' agenda.

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Augend23 · 31/07/2023 12:58

Kendodd · 31/07/2023 12:25

Could tidal power solve this? The sea never stops coming in and out.

I'd suggest hydroelectric is the best method of dealing with this.

Fill reservoirs using excess electricity when the wind is blowing/sun is shining.

Release them when they aren't.

Not energy generating but spreads the energy availability so it's in the right place at the right time.

Combine with increased supplies of wind/solar etc to make sure the excess is great enough.

And have your baseline supplied by the ongoing nuclear while renewables continue to be improved.

DatumTarum · 31/07/2023 12:59

Middlelanehogger · 31/07/2023 12:55

Britain reducing our investments in domestic energy production/exploration is simply a complete waste of everyone's time when other countries are aggressively increasing their energy needs. Pursuing (paper) net-zero at all costs simply puts us in a much more vulnerable geopolitical position for no meaningful gain for the planet.

If we want to "punch above our weight" internationally which I agree we should do, we should use our educated population to research techniques like carbon capture which could help us actually reverse/control the impact humanity has had and will continue to have on the planet.

Oh look, that's exactly what they announced that they will do as part of this policy announcement.

Even China is pushing towards renewables:

www.climatecouncil.org.au/11-countries-leading-the-charge-on-renewable-energy/

Lonelycrab · 31/07/2023 13:02

Sunak is trying to make the GE a culture war referendum

That’s pretty much the only hope they have now. Power at any cost, no matter what the damage. I expect we’ll see more of this approach over the next year.

Middlelanehogger · 31/07/2023 13:08

Investing in renewable energy isn't at odds with investing in non-renewable energy, if your main priority is securing energy supply overall. For many countries that don't have oil/gas reserves domestically it's not surprising that renewables may form a big part of the story.

noblegiraffe · 31/07/2023 13:09

Lonelycrab · 31/07/2023 13:02

Sunak is trying to make the GE a culture war referendum

That’s pretty much the only hope they have now. Power at any cost, no matter what the damage. I expect we’ll see more of this approach over the next year.

Yes, and trying to make climate change into a culture war issue, instead of an incredibly concerning global crisis.

What absolutely shitty selfish wankers they are.

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DatumTarum · 31/07/2023 13:14

Lonelycrab · 31/07/2023 13:02

Sunak is trying to make the GE a culture war referendum

That’s pretty much the only hope they have now. Power at any cost, no matter what the damage. I expect we’ll see more of this approach over the next year.

Things they are going to be against and blame Labour for over the next few months:

ULEZ
Trans rights
Renewables
Traffic control
Free school meals
Higher education
Academia in general- unless it can be sold abroad
Educational equality
Public transport
Clean rivers and beaches
Access to the law
Heritage industry presenting anything upsetting (nice history only please)

Feel free to add to the list

tootallfortheshelf · 31/07/2023 13:16

The cuntservatives are pro anything which keeps them in power and enables them to carry on stuffing their pockets with our money

freetheunicorn1 · 31/07/2023 13:20

@ArcticLingered the technology for the large scale storage that is required is simply not there yet. So we have the wind whilst the wind is blowing...

Unphased · 31/07/2023 13:41

ArcticLingered
what do you do when the wind doesn’t blow?

Unphased · 31/07/2023 13:44

Daftasabroom
what do you do in the times when the wind doesn’t blow, sun doesn’t shine, who pays for all the new infrastructure that will be need?

Unphased · 31/07/2023 13:47

Augend23
where do you build all those facilities that will be needed to generate enough power?

Daftasabroom · 31/07/2023 13:47

Unphased · 31/07/2023 13:44

Daftasabroom
what do you do in the times when the wind doesn’t blow, sun doesn’t shine, who pays for all the new infrastructure that will be need?

Power to x.

Daftasabroom · 31/07/2023 14:00

@Unphased okay I'm going to assume you really do want to know the answer to that rather than just being goady.

Excess solar and wind generated electricity will be used to generate hydrogen, largely through electrolysis. The hydrogen can be used as fuel, in either fuel cells or direct combustion. Alongside carbon capture utilisation and storage, H2 can be used to create blue methane and methanol. H2 can also be used to create ammonia which again can be used in fuel cells or combustion.

In addition we will see the adoption of heavy metal hydrides, geo-potential energy etc. Equally we will reduce our energy demand through behavioral and efficiency saves.

Currently about 1/3 of our electricity comes from renewables. Offshore wind alone is due to grow by 500% in the next decade.

Daftasabroom · 31/07/2023 14:00

Unphased · 31/07/2023 13:47

Augend23
where do you build all those facilities that will be needed to generate enough power?

Offshore.

SuePine69 · 31/07/2023 14:10

tootallfortheshelf · 31/07/2023 13:16

The cuntservatives are pro anything which keeps them in power and enables them to carry on stuffing their pockets with our money

This is the worst kind of populism. When it was about Brexit at least there were arguments on either side. There is no argument for global warming and pollution though. Just affluent people who want to continue driving their cars. Global warming to them just means they will get air conditioning for their cars and homes.

If people don't like ULEZ then let them vote in the next mayoral election. A by-election isn't the place for that because the MP can't change ULEZ.

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