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Sainsburys checkout lady said that “lots of people are switching back to cash just now”

483 replies

Harpings · 28/07/2023 08:26

I know it’s just one checkout person. But is this something others have noticed/ are doing? Just wondering if so and why it would be ?

OP posts:
Ourladycheesusedatum · 02/08/2023 17:30

RocassaCH · 02/08/2023 16:54

In the USA Form 8300 is employed to advise the IRS of any purchase of $10K or more. This has been in place for years to combat money laundering. Here, HMRC is aware of far more than many realise when it comes to transactional analysis. I noticed in a recent BBC programme on evasion how one agent's screen displayed what looked like a spider's mind-map, indicating (I assume) flows into an individual's Bank account, so that untaxed receipts could speedily be identified. The blunt fact is, too many people are blithely content to pay the penalties of tax evasion via the tax the Government then has to raise by other means, sometime subtle (frozen Tax bands) or more directly (on Fuel, Spirits etc). In Stores stealing has been replaced by euphemism after euphemism: first pilferage, currently shrinkage. You can't have it both ways. Cheat the Treasury, but then bitch and gripe about 'unfair' taxes and '... why doesn't the Government do blah blah ...".

It doesn't much matter if we bleat on about taxes, whatever we give the government in taxes will be spent.

If we somehow managed to stop all illegal activities and absolutely no money ever went into the black market, we would still be taxed at the same rate. The Gov would just find something else to spend it on.

Our taxes will never be lowered and we rarely get to say what its spent on.

MibsXX · 02/08/2023 23:37

I'm not all that smart, but I do wonder sometimes exactly how many times we get taxed on the same bit of money.. Taxed on wages, taxed on purchases, taxed on interest, taxed on selling stuff we bought with taxed money, then taxed when dead...

Momtotwokids · 03/08/2023 01:47

Here in the US during vivid they only wanted us to use a credit card. Now they are charging you around 3-4% if you use the credit card due to MasterCard and Visa charging the store.

BarbaraofSeville · 03/08/2023 06:09

Well while we were in the EU, that was illegal @Momtotwokids but that's the sort of benefit that most of the UK population that voted leave doesn't value so maybe it'll go the same way here too. After all, one of the easiest ways to make a lot of money is to take a cut from the spending or labour of a lot of people. See PayPal, Uber etc.

Here, HMRC is aware of far more than many realise when it comes to transactional analysis

Indeed, I once read about a tax inspection where the person under investigation thought they'd been very clever and all their accounts were a good reflection of what they'd declared as their earnings to HMRC.

The inspector seemed happy until they said 'but you don't seem to buy any food'?

Kazzyhoward · 03/08/2023 07:33

MibsXX · 02/08/2023 23:37

I'm not all that smart, but I do wonder sometimes exactly how many times we get taxed on the same bit of money.. Taxed on wages, taxed on purchases, taxed on interest, taxed on selling stuff we bought with taxed money, then taxed when dead...

Not really. No tax on first £12.5k of income, no VAT on food, no Inheritance tax unless you/your spouses estate is over a million, no tax on the first £1000 of interest, no tax on all ISA interest. Most people pay very little tax compared to what they get back in the form of free healthcare, education, roads, police, pensions, etc. The vast majority of people are "net takers" over their lifetimes, rather than net contributors, which is why the country is a couple of TRILLION pounds in debt!

FatherJackHackettsUnderpantsHamper · 03/08/2023 08:23

If we somehow managed to stop all illegal activities and absolutely no money ever went into the black market, we would still be taxed at the same rate. The Gov would just find something else to spend it on.

Our taxes will never be lowered and we rarely get to say what its spent on.

I agree with this - things only ever seem to go one way. Even income tax itself was once a temporary measure, over 200 years ago, to pay for the Napoleonic Wars. In fact, have you noticed how there's never any question of whether we can afford wars or not, if the government sanctions them?

Look at things like VED, which used to be known as road tax - ostensibly to repair the roads. The roads are barely repaired anymore, but we still have an equivalent tax. Now it's based on emissions, but the government have made it clear that, once we're all forced to drive cars where the emissions are made in factories and power plants rather than on the roads as we drive, we will have to start paying per mile. Does anybody really believe that money raised by the ULEZ will go into genuinely easing pollution?

NI always used to be for pensions and healthcare, but that's gone by the wayside a long time ago. If you ran a different public organisation/charity company and it was discovered that your income was not being used as agreed, you'd be shut down; but when it's government, it's apparently all OK to make promises and agreements and then just fling them aside later.

Also notice how, whenever there are campaigns for new taxes or for people to not avoid tax, every single time, the amounts stated are based on how many more hospitals, nurses, teachers, children's centres, street lights we could pay for - and NEVER on potential increases to MPs' pay, their heavily-subsidised bars, their highly-questionable 'expenses', fomented wars that have nothing to do with us, excessive bureaucracy, vanity projects, supposed 'diversity' (actually divisive and extremely controversial) causes, even things like HS2. They know very well what the response will be, if they tell us they need more tax from us to spend on what they want and we don't. Like with the CFs who perpetually claim an inability to pay their own way in shared costs, but then turn up in brand new designer clothes, the magic money tree is absolutely there when the government wants it, but its existence is outright denied when the people want to access it.

It's the same strategy, but on a grand scale, as children asking for more pocket money so that they can buy more fruit, museum tickets and educational books; and the Prime, chocolate, Xbox games and phone credit that it will end up being spent on are also never cited.

Once a tax revenue is accepted as the norm, even if the supposed reason for it is long gone, the tax remains, unquestioned, in perpetuity. At best, you hear about a few tolls levied for the building of bridges being scrapped decades or centuries later, once the bridge is finally paid for; but the vast, vast majority of taxes are here to stay forever, regardless of any ongoing justification.

Inheritance tax has been mentioned, and that was initially supposed to break up huge family estates - one reason why the National Trust now has such an amazing portfolio. Now, we're in the position where any modest family home in London or the SE will breach it and mean that many ordinary families end up paying for it (I'm lucky enough to live in a perfectly nice but much cheaper region, before anybody accuses me of arguing with self-interest). Also stamp duty, which, if we must have it, if fairly levied, would manifestly be on the difference in house value when you trade up. Instead, you currently can move to an identical house in another town (or three streets away) - or even a significantly less nice/cheaper one, maybe forced to by COL and other family financial circumstances - and you're taxed on the value of the house you move into, with no allowance made for one you give up.

This is, of course, if you manage to avoid the obscene Elderly Tax, whereby the routine, anticipable health needs of a great many older folk have to be paid from the sale of their own houses. Nobody ever suggests that younger people who may have similar needs have a charge put on their/their parents' houses. People complain "Why should MY taxes have to pay for YOUR health needs, so that YOUR children can inherit your house?" - but this is precisely what the stated aims of the NHS are: cradle to grave healthcare, free at the point of use, provided according to need. Nobody would ever dream of trying to deny a similar potential later inheritance to, say, a child who survives leukaemia and thus incurs very expensive healthcare costs, before any family asset has been built up and is thus there right now for the grabbing; or even any suggestion of deferring the standard costs to the NHS of your own birth and many and varied routine childhood health/other costs to when you may be able to pay for them in middle age - because the public would never stand for this; but when it comes to the elderly (and/or disabled folk), far too few people care about them to protest against blatant discrimination against them.

FatherJackHackettsUnderpantsHamper · 03/08/2023 08:46

Most people pay very little tax compared to what they get back in the form of free healthcare, education, roads, police, pensions, etc. The vast majority of people are "net takers" over their lifetimes, rather than net contributors

How is this measured, though? Does it include all the VAT (only on 'luxuries', of course...!) and things like petrol tax (where the utility is firstly taxed, with VAT then levied on that tax - grossly immoral in fundamental principle) that people pay throughout their lives?

I'm presuming as a matter of course that no accounting is ever made for the 'poor tax' that millions of people are forced to pay before they even receive the artificially low/exploitative wages for their work.

How much tax is only able to be paid by the very rich people and corporations (if they don't cleverly avoid it in the first place) purely because they are able to get rich by exploiting the poor and ordinary folk - who are then told that they must be eternally grateful for these 'benevolent' people effectively paying for them to live?

Ourladycheesusedatum · 03/08/2023 10:46

Kazzyhoward · 03/08/2023 07:33

Not really. No tax on first £12.5k of income, no VAT on food, no Inheritance tax unless you/your spouses estate is over a million, no tax on the first £1000 of interest, no tax on all ISA interest. Most people pay very little tax compared to what they get back in the form of free healthcare, education, roads, police, pensions, etc. The vast majority of people are "net takers" over their lifetimes, rather than net contributors, which is why the country is a couple of TRILLION pounds in debt!

There is vat on some foods. https://www.gov.uk/guidance/food-products-and-vat-notice-70114
How many people earn over 12.5 k, I imagine at least half the population.
Statista have some numbers
https://www.statista.com/statistics/813364/average-gross-income-per-household-uk/

So the bottom tier households earn more than 12.5k, ok some of them will be 2 people working part time, but not all.

And of course theres more general taxes like fuel, clothing, (once upon a time the electricity that came to your house was not taxed, then it was taxed at 5% and now more) white good, council tax, and on and on.

So you get your salary or wage, its been taxed at source. You go buy a fridge, you are taxed for that purchase, you get the fridge delivered to the house you paid tax to buy and pay council tax on, you pay tax on the electricity it needs to run.
.

If you do the right thing and pay into a pension all your life and are lucky enough to live long enough to claim it, you can get taxed on that if it takes you over the tax bracket. Then if you need to go into a home because you cant manage anymore, your house is sold to pay for it.
If you die intestate and no one comes along with the right to claim your estate in time, it goes to the government. Not as rare as you might think.

I think the country is in trillions of debt because of things like hs2 and covid payments and other schemes that looked good to the government at the time but were a big fat white elephant. And other reasons.

UK average gross income per household decile 2022 | Statista

Households in the bottom decile in the United Kingdom earned, on average, 14,729 British pounds per year in 2021/22, compared with the top decile which earned 196,638 pounds per year.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/813364/average-gross-income-per-household-uk

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