What date for fine to be paid by/appeal made?

[Birdfeather]

“ 21 days from the day following the date of issue…”

Item (train fine) was issued 18/7/23.

Based on the above statement, the fine /penalty fare notice gives a date as to when the fine should be paid/appeal to be made by.

What date do you think it should show?

(Before I’m flamed, ticket had been purchased, in advance, online. But I had left phone with ticket on platform - I understand that I can appeal on basis that I had bought ticket but also understand that this is not necessarily grounds for successful appeal according to IRCAS.

So I want to be sure all the details on the penalty fare notice are correct.)

9th August?

Which could technically mean by midnight on the 8th so that it is paid by the 9th 🤔

Is there a reason why you don't just do it now/very soon, so you know you're well within the appeals process?

They haven't lost any money, you had a ticket, but lost it, so it seems to be a good reason for allowing your appeal against the fine.

As I said, it’s not a guaranteed reason according to the appeals people. (I’m with you though. To me it seems like a very good reason.)

The only guaranteed get out of jail free card is if they get any of the details wrong on the ticket. Hence my question.

And also as you have 21 days, I’m minded to use what I can of those 21 days.

That’s where I’m at! Is it 8th or 9th? I hate ambiguity like that!

I would say 8th but I’d want to see the whole sentence to be sure.

As it is 21 days from the day after the date of issue I’m inclined to think the 9th is too late.

That means details like what train you were one. You're not going to get out of the penalty over an argument about the definition of "21 days", not when you received the penalty well before those 21 days finish.

The offence is not producing a valid ticket on demand. It's harsh but it's the rules and enforcement approaches that have been put in place. Even if you wanted to campaign for change you are still subject to the regulations as they are now.

You are wrong.

I’m not disputing the fine or the reason it was given. I had no way of proving I had a ticket when asked.

I am referring specifically to the appeals process and one part of that process is to ensure all of the details on the fine are correct. That includes the date the fine is to be paid by. Not just whether you were on the correct train.

I am not disputing when the fine was given. I am asking about the date that should be shown on the fine (the date it has to be paid by).

These are rules set out by the railway firms and regulation - their rules. I’m not trying to twist their words. I am stating as fact what their words say.

The whole sentence …

I’s say that is right then- by the 9th is the 8th or earlier.

My my count the last day to pay would be 8th, so pay by 9th is accurate, because pay by = pay before.

I’m not trying to twist their words.

it certainly seems that way.

I would take it to mean "pay before the end of the 8th" but then again, I'd start the appeal process immediately as there's no benefit to farting about.

As I said before, but I will say again for your benefit, the only guaranteed way of winning appeal is if their process was incorrect; including details on the ticket. Therefore I was interested on the views as to what date should be set out.

There is no benefit to starting the appeals process now compared to waiting until the day it should be paid by.