Motorway driving questions and musings...

[Pinkneonballoon]

I've recently done a lot of motorway driving alone so I've had a bit of time to muse on a few things....

The 50 limited zones for roadworks with the average speed check cameras. Do people know something I don't? As in they don't actually don't monitor your speed? Just loads of people don't stick to the limit. Or maybe I don't understand how they work and you just have to be doing 50 when you go past a camera?

Also middle lane hogging. I know people have talked about it on here a lot, but I think it's so common I'm now starting to wonder if it's a thing about how people were taught to drive? Like did rolling along in the middle lane used to be a thing? I've been driving for 20 years and although it wasn't part of my test it was made clear you move over if poss. But I'm feeling this must have not always been the case can anyone comment? As it's so common!

Anyone's thoughts or answers would be great!

When I last drove on the motorway near Manchester last August, there were a lot of temporary 50mph zones due to road works. Allegedly with cameras, but I never saw any. But really, where do they plug temporary cameras in (assuming they are cameras and not police vans)? Wouldn't that be a lot of work just for temporary cameras? I still do 50 in these areas but everyone else does 70...

What really annoys me is the people who don't get up to speed on slip roads!! I got stuck behind a car joining the motorway today and he was only doing about 45... why??????? There's no excuse for it, my car is tiny and I have to have my foot to the floor but still get up to 70 (when there's no idiots holding me up), so why anybody in these big fancy cars attempts to join at such a low speed is beyond me. It seems to be happening more and more, perhaps the gov should run a campaign on TV reminding people of these basic things as everyone seems to have forgotten!

Why can't the middle lane hoggers just move to the left and stay there?! Hog the left lane instead 🤬

OP you talked about moving over if possible, I think this is part of the perception that leads to middle lane hogging.

It's a particularly British thing to think about getting out of people's way on a motorway. In Germany it's more about being predictable and driving in a logical fashion so that people can understand what your intentions are. Yes you might slow down or speed up very slightly in order to create a gap for somebody, but changing lanes to get out of the way for someone to join just isn't done here. DH finds this really funny as he learned to drive in the UK and I had driving lessons here.

Then yes as you say people see it as an average speed thing. I know my dad thinks this. And then the belief (even on this thread) that changing lanes is such a terrible risky thing to do that you must avoid it as much as possible. Yes, you should be very careful and aware while changing lanes, but it creates more of a hazard to just be driving along with no awareness of what is around you.

So if you have all this combined, particularly the first and last point, people want to get out of the way of people leaving/joining and don't want to be overtaking trucks all the time, so they get into the middle and stay there, whether there's anything to overtake or not.

Exactly this, I always try and move into slow lane if I possibly can but often it's just not doable as it's usually full with lorries. If you move in you end up having to slow down because you can't pull out easily again.

Surely it's just about driving to the flow of the traffic?

There was a similar bit of “temporary” 50 zone just before scotch corner for ages, where you could be guaranteed to be doing under 30 for a good stretch of it. The temptation to “average 50” by speeding up once traffic eased was very strong! (I didn’t, obviously, because it was still narrowed lanes.)

This is not logical - you'd have queues in the left lane - exactly where slip roads merge.

When roads are quiet, we have to drive differently to when roads are busy.

When roads are busy, it’s much safer to stay in one lane. Often, there are lorries in the far left, 60-70mph drivers in the middle lanes and speeders in the right hand lane. Queues are shorter if people stay in lanes. You can’t have everyone in the left lane….

The worst culprits for accidents are those going far too slowly, those shifting lanes - often erratically, undertakers and speeders who don’t allow for cars manoeuvring in front of them who are not doing 80-90+. Honourable mention to drivers who don’t seem to know how to join a motorway by matching their speed to the speed of the traffic on the motorway (be it 70 mph or 50 mph) and try to join far too fast or too slow.

The biggest problem is that people don’t adjust their driving according the conditions and drivers around them. And those who always put the blame onto others.

People lack awareness of the road around them. Slow drivers are very dangerous, but as a driver it’s my responsibility to be aware of what is happening in front of me.

I realise I’m off the topic of lane hogging now…

I thought exactly the same 😁that stretch is miserable currently

I’ve had a full licence for about 37 years and middle lane hogging has always been the same

But when I was learning to drive it was common to refer to the fast lane and slow lane - but to be told by driving instructors that neither exist, drivers should be in the left most lane

The first experience of average speed cameras that British motorists had was in French toll roads - the ‘knowledge’
passed on was that you were time stamped by cameras when entering a toll area and time stamped as you went through the exit toll point. If you were clocked too fast then the Gendarmarie would end up with your details
The motorists recommended solution was to speed and make sure that there was a services to stop at before your exit

When we received average speed cameras the word was that two cameras had to be matched, and that it wasn’t possible to track via the multiple cameras across each lane - so the ‘solution’ was to change lanes when passing the next camera

The other situation was that drivers didn’t understand average speed cameras so would speed in between and slow down past each camera

…..

Drivers obey the official rule of the road to get through the driving test, then drive however they wish in line with the supposed ‘real life’ rule of the road - justifying it that it’s what everyone else does

The very first time I drove on a motorway my mum asked "did you just stay in the middle lane? That's the best way to do it."

No mum, I didn't 🙄

At the time, to get to my parents' house involved 4 hours of motorway driving. Imagine spending 4 hours in the middle lane!

Are you one if the people who hogs the middle lane? 🤣 You seem strangely angry about this.

Also what failings are we talking about here? Like the ones you seem to have invented as there's no reference to how I drive... or the ones you've witnessed because you know how I drive by some kind of magic?

We have lots of all running lane motorways near us and find that people treat the left lane as a hard shoulder still and avoid it, I think to avoid finding a stranded vehicle and because these lanes become exit lanes. Using it becomes near impossible if you don't want to undertake.

So the middle lane then effectively becomes lane 3, leaving the right hand lane for effective overtaking. Does my head.

I regularly travel tge m3 which has had about 10 miles of 50mph average speed limit at the southern end. Generally people stick to it and it’s quite calm as there isn’t much overtaking compared to normal. In reality I often travel at about 54/55 on my Speedo, so probably about 1 or 2 mph over the limit and I’d say a lot of other drivers are doing this too. There will always be places where you’re dipping down to 40 or so, so a moment or two over the limit wont put you over the average.

And middle lane hoggers, no, it’s a really bad habit. Pull over to the left unless there’s a good reason not to.

Would you also be offended if she pointed out all the people doing 90 in the fast lane up the car in front’s bumper, leaving no stopping distances, were middle aged men? (Which they usually are)

People of different ages have different “typical” driving behaviours. That’s why insurance premiums are different for different age groups.

I think people who are way of motorway driving often just put themselves in the middle lane and stay there. It drives me mad and I will be honest, I give them eye contact as I overtake them, or gesture that they might want to move over.
If people are that nervous of changing lanes on a motorway, then they shouldn’t be on one.

I think this re motorway driving too tbh!

Also another thing the smart motorways ie use of hard shoulder as a lane. I saw a breakdown in one on the M1 I think. Luckily a lorry driver saw from some distance and slowed right down with his hazards on. Kinda protecting the car. But so potentially dangerous. I thought they'd been identified as a terrible idea so I'm surprised they're still operational.

The thing with middle lane hoggers is it can cause big bottlenecks as faster drivers have to then jostle for position to get into the outside lane, it also makes people undertaking more likely. It causes the traffic to bunch up and imo makes the motorway a more dangerous place.

Changing lane calmly and safely is a crucial part of motorway driving. If you feel uneasy doing it, get some lessons.

There are long sections of the M25 that have no hard shoulder. Keeping in the left lane becomes very scary and dangerous.
There are accidents on that stretch (Enfield) nearly every day. Removing the hard shoulder definitely increases the middle lane hogging IME.

@Clementineorsatsuma it seems it probably is, if the theories on this thread around why people hog the middle lane are true...

The thing I find now is that middle lane hoggers are encouraging reckless driving from others more. I used to find that people would overtake them, glaring or giving the finger and then usually pull back in to the middle or left lane quite pointedly. But now I'm seeing a lot of people undertake them at high speed, which is very dangerous.

I just don't drive on motorways now and will actively avoid them. This is as a direct result of trying to drive in the left lane where I was bullied and tailgated by lorry drivers one time too many, even when doing 65+. The worst was when I was in a smaller car, on my own with two young children in the back. It almost never happened when I was driving a SUV or when my DH was/ is driving at the same speed. It's so busy now though I'm never more than half an hour later !!

The first experience of average speed cameras that British motorists had was in French toll roads - the ‘knowledge’
passed on was that you were time stamped by cameras when entering a toll area and time stamped as you went through the exit toll point. If you were clocked too fast then the Gendarmarie would end up with your details

I’ve been done by this, stopped at a toll booth by a friendly gendarme and escorted to the gendarmerie located in the toll complex. €100 euro fine at that time whereas today the same thing would’ve resulted in the car being impounded etc.

I do a lot of 70mph duel carriageways, so the middle lane hoggers basically create miles of rolling road blocks making overtaking impossible.

Yesterday I encountered the vaguely comic situation of 3 very small cars taking 5 miles to lanehog/ occasionally pass each other. There were abundant opportunites to move left and release traffic that they ignored. I kept pace, observing in the lightly populated lane 1 while lane 2 while the previously light traffic flow bunched up behind them.

That was after the driving school car that caused a string of traffic to emerge into free-flowing traffic at 28mph 🙈. While there is a bend on the slip-road requiring a reduction in speed, there is ample straight space to accelerate to 70mph in time, and 60 or even 50 would be safer than 28! If the leaner was that lacking in confidence, they are not yet ready for that layout.

The 40-45 mphers seemed to peak last year with the fuel prices as they were driving for economy, but there are more of them left littering the roads than pre-2022.

I'm happy to overtake to the right, and pull back in when necesary. It means I stay mentally alert and interested in watching all lanes and the road ahead.
If the traffic flow is heavy, it's simpler to find a generous space between the lorries in lane 1 and enjoy the stopping distance rather than being nose to tail 3mph faster in lane 2.

My pass plus lessons on some of the busiest sections of the UK motorway network were well worth doing.

I'm glad that learners can now have motorway lessons as part of their training.

Middle lane hogging has always been an issue, it's definitely not something people were taught/told to do in the past. Now there are more cars than ever on the roads meaning you encounter more drivers who do this. A lot of MLHs dislike sharing lane one with lorries or moving with the conditions so sit in lane two. It's infuriating.

I've really noticed more and more drivers driving considerably below the speed limit. They are often the ones doing 40 in a 50 zone who fail to slow down when the speed limit reduces to 30. Go figure.

In my experience, it's almost always younger people who are middle lane hoggers.