Anyone got a Scout or Explorer going to WSJ in South Korea?

[lazylittlelucy]

Just thought I'd start a thread for parents if there are any on here.
My 17yo DD is going as an Explorer and is getting excited now.
Anyone else?

That is deeply unhelpful and just not thought through at all. There is no way the Unit Leaders can start releasing individual U18s (let alone those who are feeling upset and unwell) to start traveling back unaccompanied.

Well said.
The volunteers on the ground, and those trying to support through the night in the UK are doing a tremendous job, but the inquest on how this site was passed in the first place, and how the international organising people haven't picked up earlier the issues that were foreseen in the weeks and months before any young person got to site, is going to be interesting.

Feel so sorry for the young people, the Unit Leaders, the IST and all the other volunteers who have been planning for this for 2 years.

Would strike me that would have a knock on effect on events - the UK leaders will be booked in to help with events. Even if the UK scouts are gone, thats going to still be disruptive and make it difficult to run the events. Without the events, whats the point in being onsite?

It looks like they'd pitched many of the Brits under the hot weather shelters due to the lack of available dry ground. Which naturally has had knock on effects.

The fact they had to get plastic pallets for under the tents (which didn't always work) is something else.

There is NOTHING redeeming about this event. What could have gone wrong?

Flooding on an area below sea level? tick
Heatwave in the middle of the hottest months of the year? tick
Lack of sanitation? tick
Issues with transport? tick
Lack of tents? tick
Issues with food? tick
Issues with insects in an area with flooding problems? tick
Typhoon in typhoon season? hey there's time yet!

What other basic stuff was there to think about? They seem to have scored badly on every single logistical point.

Yes, I have no desire to bring DD home early and just hope that they manage to get 12 more days accommodation at such short notice. Although I assume UK Contingent has already secured this.

@CheersToMe Other countries will now do the same. As the largest association, and one that holds a lot of clout internationally,the UK (TSA) knows that every decision it takes is watched closely. They will have put safeguarding first and foremost - because that is what they do, but they will also have been aware of the political implications in world scouting. WOSM's declaration this afternoon is in line with the UK, and "gives permission" for others to leave, too.
It's so sad. I wonder whether the long gap since the last WSJ has led to a loss of expertise that isn't seen in the usual four-year cycle.

I was thinking about that. The leaders can't facilitate getting the kids to the airport by themselves. And they won't have the staff to accompany them to the airport. There's liability in terms of minors flying unaccompanied too. Whose insurance are they covered by in that point?

Its not helpful. Once they are back at a hotel in Seoul the situation should be much better - and they should be able to enjoy some of it.

But I wouldn't be trying to arrange flights as that only adds to the issues. The leaders with the kids WILL be looking after them as best they can. The issues are ones with the site not the group leaders with the kids.

There was no gap in planning/expertise - my DS was at USA 2019.

I agree that the UK is leading (they have been since the first UK arrivals a week ago).
It's more that other contingents may not have the resources to secure an alternative arrangement for the remainder of the Jambo, or to arrange transport home.

The relationship between WOSM and the National Scout organisation that is hosting is akin to the one between the IOC and and Olympic host country. Only WOSM has a LOT less clout than the IOC, due to having a tiny staff and a lot less money.

This will primarily be on the organising committee, perhaps in a culture where pressure to be seen to be successful engendered a culture of pretending that all was well, to save face.

@CheersToMe True! Sorry. My DD was also in the US in 2019. I forgot that Covid had wiped out the European Jamboree, not the WSJ. It will, though, have limited the sort of regional / national events that usually take place to stress test the infrastructure and organisers. The UK did this prior to 2007; the US prior to 2019.
This site did not appear to have been stress tested at all.

Would strike me that would have a knock on effect on events - the UK leaders will be booked in to help with events. Even if the UK scouts are gone, thats going to still be disruptive and make it difficult to run the events.

I just want to make it clear to those that don't know:

The IST and Leaders have also had to fundraiser and pay their own way to work and volunteer at the Jamboree. So I'm afraid the hosts are going to have to manage without all their free labour.

I have a few leader friends in the jamboree (not uk contingent) and all their blog posts and social meida updates are so positive (with occasional it's hot, remembe room drink reminders) and looks a lot of fun. And none of out local scout media has mentioned anything about troubles.

@Lemonsole it seems barely possible that it was only 4 years ago! Mt Bechtel is an established Jamboree site so although there were a few hitches, it had the benefit of an experienced site organisation. Whereas nothing similar in SK.

Thanks for the Olympics analogy, that's very helpful.

It hasn't.

Read this thread from 29th

https://twitter.com/koryodynasty/status/1685114406756286464

1/ Authorities are emphasising safety as the top priority ahead of the World Scout Jamboree, which will take place in S. Korea Aug 1-12, bringing over 40,000 young people from 150 countries. But concerns are still being raised, especially re: weather.
2/ The World Scout Jamboree, the Scout Movement's largest scouting event, will bring young people and their leaders from all over the world to South Korea this week. I've seen hundreds of scouts on the streets of Seoul in the last few days!
3/ The campground encompasses some 8.8 km² in Saemangeum, a controversial multi-billion dollar land reclamation project that has for a long time been at odds with environmental activists. Promises of grand investments in the area and economic revitalisation have gone nowhere.
4/ Environmentalists and bird conservation orgs have long condemned Saemangeum. "Most people in Korea also do not know that outside of Korea Saemangeum is increasingly recognised as one of the world’s biggest man-made ecological disasters."
5/ With only a few days until the massive event begins, preparations are being made to ensure the safety of all those involved. A police station has been established, CCTV and control centre, hundreds of officers will be deployed, as well as emergency services and clinics.
6/ But there are still concerns, especially regarding unpredictable factors, namely the weather: recent torrential rains have created mudpits, and scorching heatwaves are affecting the peninsula right now. SBS recorded a temperature of 35 degrees under a tent after 10 minutes.
7/ To alleviate issues caused by mudpits and standing pools of rainwater, plastic platforms are being provided to raise tents above the ground. Still concerns of rain. Meanwhile, gov says drainage work, maintenance, electricity and waterworks to all be completed by this weekend.
8/ Another uncontrollable factor are insects. Saemangeum was after all a major wetland and a key feeding ground for hundreds of thousands of migratory birds, many of which have now disappeared from the area.
9/ Regarding medical issues, authorities are reportedly expecting around 430 patients a day, mainly for resting and minor bruises. "It's not hospital facilities" according to one official. The nearest hospitals are at least 40 mins away, or 15 mins by helicopter.
10/ On-site worker interviewed by SBS says he feels a little uneasy by it all. Meanwhile, the Jamboree main centre building, which reportedly cost 48 billion won, is still unfinished to welcome guests (completion expected next year), days before the event is due to commence.

The site was a new one. It wasn't ready. It wasn't completed in full. They weren't expecting to need to hospitalise anyone. They didn't have enough buses. There are reports of scout still digging trenches to aid drainage on twitter.

Theres a lot here to say the event should have been pulled. But no one had the guts to ask the right questions. I'm seeing on twitter comments that scouting in South Korea has form for this too, which isn't great.

I think we would have encouraged DS to apply for Poland, but I'm dubious now. There are other international scouting opportunities available - we know kids and adults planning to go on them over the next 18months to other things. I think we will probably look at those rather than Jamboree in future.

This looks like Glasto 97 on steroids. But with kids.

@Rewis there's a lot of spin and putting on a brave face. Or, in the case of UKC, a deafening silence since the units left Seoul. That was telling.

Yep. Which is another logistical nightmare. And makes me wonder how doable it is within 48hrs. If thats the case, then the rest of the event might be completely doomed at this point anyway.

Na not silence. Bear stood on stage and told everyone to drink lots.

(Ignoring the queues for water?!)

@RedToothBrush You're right about South Korean Scouting having "previous".
Those reporting back to WOSM on how preparations were going will almost certainly have had vested interests in portraying everything as being perfect, when it was far from the case.
From what you've posted, it appears that Scouting was being used politically, as a means of painting a controversial development in a positive light. Yuck.

The WSJ in the US was a good example of WOSM managing a tricky political situation well. It is traditional that the WSJ is opened by the head of state (or near enough) of the host. This would have been Trump. And, at the time, BSA was early in its journey of creating a more inclusive form of Scouting than it had fostered in the past. So it was decided that the US was actually co-hosting, with Mexico and Canada, and so a head of state was no longer appropriate.

Here, it seems, nobody seems to have wanted to ask any difficult questions.

I'm sending every possible good vibe to the leaders and IST out there: they've paid as much as the kids and will be working hard to balance their own exhaustion and worry with keeping their Explorers calm, healthy and building good memories. They're awesome.

@RedToothBrush the Twitter account you quoted from has been suspended

I think once in a hotel in Seoul the kids will still have a blast. The people are what the event are about and they will still be mixing with kids from all over the uk. And being in a city like Seoul they will still be able to do lots. It's an exciting place in its own right.

It won't be the experience they expected but they can still have a good time.

Ultimately that's the ethos of scouting anyway.

It's just terrible that it's been so badly planned.

I worry about the fall out from parents and leaders who feel so badly let down and the longer term impact on scouting in the UK more widely.

These trips are amazing but it will damage trust in them internationally.

Wow! The guy was writing for the Guardian!

And was followed by numerous credible journalists. Not a crank.

It's been reported on the Irish state media that several Irish scout attendees at the Jamboree in South Korea have been treated for heat stroke. 5 out of a total of 222 in the Irish contingent - 2 young people and 3 adults.
They have recovered well, thankfully.

Do we know where the next WSJ is going to be. Might be harder to get parents happy to send their DC to something like this and also help subsidise £4k cost.

Mind we had a friend whose DC went on a previous WSJ who simply crawled out of their tent every morning and did the nearest activity to them. Didn’t explore, meet up with other groups etc. Not sure that was £4k well spent!

Poland. I think that will be much better planned for various reasons.

A strong safeguarding culture means putting the health and well-being of young people first, even when the decision to do so might be unpopular or difficult to balance with other interests.
This reassures me that the UK Scout Association is getting it right, and that my children will continue to be safe in their care.