4 year old car seats - keep rear face or FF?

[Pumpkinbumkin200]

In the next few months, my 1 year old will need a new car seat and was planning to give him our 4 year old's spin seat.

I can't decide what to do - she's happy RF so I could buy an extended RF seat up to or I could buy a FF seat. I don't want to get the RF and then she hates it when she is a bit older etc. Although, I also feel guilty about putting her FF as I know RF is safer. Is it still much safer when they're 4+?

I think at 4 i would focus on getting the safest forward facing seat you can.

We have an Axkids extended rear facing seat for our nearly 5 year old and we're really happy with it. I think the research suggests that it's best to rear face as long as you can.

For me it partly depends on overall risk profile - do you regularly go on motorways for long journeys etc?

Most of our driving is in 20mph zones and the kids go in the car once or twice a week. Maybe once a month we go faster than 50mph. I got a good quality forward facing one when DC was about 3.

If I was taking them on a roads or motorways everyday I might have gone for ff.

Thanks all.
We don't go on motor ways everyday but A roads a few times a week I suppose. Usually just around town. But then a few times a year longer drives on holiday etc.

We had axkids too so they were approaching 5 when they started to get too big and heavy for them. The older one had no complaints but the younger was desperate to get FF because her big sis was. She also got travel sick so I think she was closer to 4.5 when we changed hers.

Which FF seats did you go for?

At 4 I’d get a high backed booster. The cybex ones are really good in terms of safety and comfort.

We went for good quality FF seats at this age. Can't remember exactly which ones but they are cybex.

She's petite for her age though and only just 15kg and 100cm so think she would be too small for one?

They have to be rear facing by law until 15 months old now.

I would rear face. I did with my son until he was around 2.5 years.

there’re a lot of idiots on A roads, it’s not your driving you have to worry about, it’s other peoples

Misread that that you wanted to FF your 1 year old!

at 4, i would buy a top of the range high backed booster.

Yes I am talking about my 4 year old still RF (the one year old will be until at least then too!)

I'd buy a good quality forward facing which fits your car and has a harness until at least 6/7. Rear facing past infancy wasn't a thing when mine were small and I had to fight to keep them in boosters as most didn't used them. We had a 60mph crash when dd was 2 and forward facing in her graco harnessed booster and she was fine, the policeman said it was a good seat and properly installed which made the difference, he said too many people bought seats based on reviews rather than checking it fitted their car properly!

I'd keep her in a 0-4 seat at that size, she might not outgrow it for a good year or two.

We had a rear facing seat that went up to 25kg. DS2 only moves out of it at the end of last year when he turned 7. He is quite slim and short and could have been in it longer but we needed a new car so made sense to change him. He's definitely old enough to have a stabilised pelvis and neck much stronger than younger kids his weight.

I definitely would just leave her in it for a while longer but her baby brother needs the next car seat now and I don't want to buy one for him for her to them outgrow hers in a year or less away really.

Rear facing is always safer, even for adults . This is why the air stewards have RF seats.
That said, it's more important when children are little because their body proportions are different. Age 4ish is when they tend to change from toddler-shape to child-shape.
How much use you'll get out of an extended RF seat depends on your child's size and attitude. You've said she's small, so it's about guessing when you/she wants to change.
My nearly 5yo will comfortably fit in our axkid minikid for at least another year, probably two. He was perfectly happy in it til we have given lifts to his cousins in high backed boosters. Now it's just endless complaints and fighting to get out of it.

Forward facing seats are safer with a seatbelt than a harness, so think about whether she is mature enough to keep a seatbelt on.

Britax romers. @bertiebotts is wonderful for car seat advice, if you don’t mind me tagging you Bertie! In your case with your updates about your daughter being petite, I would stick with it because she will be fine in it well past 5, and just another ERF for your younger. We had the same age difference which was awkward in the same ways and we ended up not being able to pass on, or decided that wasn’t the best course of action though more expensive - depends on finances of course.

Well let's just do a bit of a flow chart decision tree. Basically, you have four choices at this age:

High backed booster
123 seat, 18kg harness (123 = forward facing harness + HBB seat)
123 seat, extended (25kg) harness
ERF 25kg+ seat

Is your 4yo over 100cm AND 15kg?
If NO: then a high backed booster is still illegal for them to use, which rules out that option completely. They need a harness until both minimums are met.

Is 4yo closer to 100cm and 15kg than they are to 105cm and 18kg (or higher)?
If YES: then they are quite borderline for a HBB and it would be better to keep them in a harness for at least another 6 months or so.

Is 4yo still fairly immature in terms of behaviour/emotions, do they tantrum regularly, would they play with the seatbelt?
If YES: then again they are too young for a HBB and should remain harnessed for another 6-12 months at least (then reassess).

If they are close to the 105cm + 18kg, mature, sensible and listen to instructions - HBB is an option, and it's a good one in terms of cost (but you'll need to buy a second one for your younger child in time). A standalone HBB is usually safer than the ones which are combined with harness seats, so this is a decent long term choice, although a step down from rear facing. (But you have to make that step at some point).

If they need a harness still:
Do you have top tether anchors in your car?
If NO: Rule out 25kg 123 type seats as they will not fit in your car.

Are they over 102ish cm or 16/17kg? OR Do you need/prefer a harness for as long as possible?
If YES: rule out the 18kg limit 123 seats (e.g. Britax Advansafix) as the harness will not last long enough.

Are you willing to spend over £200 (probably £270+) on the seat?
If NO: Rule out the 25kg+ ERF seats. They're in a bit of a transition period at the moment and there are no cheaper options on the market. The other three seat types cost between £100-200 and you can get a HBB for less than £100 if you really shop around.

Out of whichever of the four options you have left:

REAR FACING trumps FORWARD FACING for safety (you know this already )
If a child has got to age 4+ happy RF, I think it's unlikely that they will suddenly change their mind and insist on being FF. The 25kg+ seats are more comfortable than the spin seats. OTOH, 4 is considered a reasonable age to FF even in Sweden. The types of accident where it makes a difference at this age are probably very very slim.

18kg 123 SEAT trumps 25kg 123 SEAT for safety, so unless you need the higher harness capacity, it's usually not worth getting a 25kg FF harness seat.

HBB seat that is only a HBB beats the HBB that is combined into a 123 seat, for safety. Although some of the better 18kg 123 seats are pretty close, so a reasonable compromise if you really want the harness just for a short time.

Join the page Car Seat Safety UK on Facebook (if you're on there!), tell them your child's age, height, weight, your budget and they will suggest the best Seat for you. The admins who run the page are all car seat specialists (not like who you get in Halfords/Smyths, who are minimally trained in basic legal requirements). They are ERF advocates so you probably won't get a FF recommendation, RF is safest for as long as possible. Forward facing in a harness is not ideal, the body is held back but the head propels forward in an accident, which can cause serious injury/death, and it sounds like she isn't big enough for a HBB yet, and a lot of 4 year olds don't yet understand to sit sensibly and not mess with the seat belt. We've just bought a Britax Maxway Plus (discontinued due to a newer version coming out, but still available), which is a good budget option for ERF.

OK sorry it took me a while to type that so I did not see the responses in between :)

So with her stats, I'd say that it's between a 25kg+ ERF seat:

Axkid Minikid
Besafe izi Plus
Besafe Stretch
Britax Max Way Plus
Britax Multi-Tech 3

Or an 18kg 123 seat:

Britax Advansafix IV R (not the i-size)
Britax Evolvafix
Silver Cross Balance
Maxi Cosi Titan Pro/Plus i-size (must be pro or plus AND i-size)
Test the Maxi-Cosi first as the harness is short.

If you have no top tether/isofix:
Recaro Tian Elite

If budget is v tight:
Britax Evolva 123

We have an axkid mini kid and my nearly 6YO is still in it safely.

RF is five times safer and we will keep him doing so until he reaches the weight or height limit of the seat.

There is a great ERF fb group but they are a passionate group so you will get some strong opinions.

My youngest is in the concord verso (isofix) and will swap to the axkid when the eldest goes into a high backed booster.

It's not really clear whether FF with harness or with seatbelt is safer, this goes around a lot and comes from some (old, 80s/90s) Swedish data originally which is possibly not applicable to modern FF seats.

Certainly America and Australia seem to think it's safer to be in a 5 point harness compared to high backed booster.

But in general there is no good data on this so it's impossible to say with confidence either way. 5 point harness is what you want in a rollover for certain, I can't say anything different from that.

It does seem to be easier for HBB seats to get a good score in the ADAC test compared to harness seats, but I don't know whether they test them using the same criteria, so it might not be a fair comparison.

I’m having a bit of a dilemma with this. My eldest was mega fall and heavy and was out of her 18kg seat around 3. We got her a maxway plus which only did her comfortably until about 5 so it didn’t last as long as we were anticipating but got her longer rear facing than we’d have otherwise have without it and i wouldn’t have put her in a hbb at 3.

My youngest is tiny and at 4 is still in her 18kg seat very comfortably. But- she sees her sister facing forward and is pushing against it much more than her sister ever did. I suspect that pressure will intensify once she starts school- already at nursery her friends ask why she’s in a baby seat. I’m not sure whether to get her a hbb once she grows out of the 18kg seat- partly for convenience for local journeys or get the maxways down. I know the latter option is safer.

Bunny if she is fairly small then she might have ages in the 18kg seat yet, so I'd just wait until she outgrows it and then see what age she is then and how you feel about it.