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Original poster

Benefit fraud - any experience?

19 replies

Bemyclementine · 08/07/2023 11:18

This isnt me BTW.

Self employed, claims UC, single parent, mortgage. Gifted sone money from family member to pay a chunk of mortgage off. Didn't pay it off but left it in savings, didn't declare it. Didnt spend it. Worried about COL crisis, car going wrong etc. Continued to claim UC. Has since paid money off mortgage.

Currently under investigation , provided all bank statements which show the amount sitting in the savings account.

What's likely to happen? Repay UC and a fine? Court?

OP posts:
Polik · 08/07/2023 11:30

The amount is very relevant. Was it more than £16k or less than 6k?

Babyroobs · 08/07/2023 11:31

They will need to repay any Uc received since the capital was over 16k as that would all have been overpaid. Whether they take it any further as in prosecution ( I doubt it ) would depends on how long they have been defrauding the DWP for and whether it was intentional etc.

Babyroobs · 08/07/2023 11:32

Sorry I should also have said as previous poster says it would depend on the amount. Over 6k would just reduce the amount of Uc they were entitled to claim each month but over 16k would stop the Uc altogether.

Interested in this thread?

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Benefits
Original poster
Bemyclementine · 08/07/2023 11:37

Thanks, yes it was over 16k for a period of time

OP posts:
Original poster
Bemyclementine · 08/07/2023 11:38

Regarding the repayment, could this be done as deductions from future UC claim? Or would it be stopped altogether? (No savings currently, paid off mortgage as originally intended)

OP posts:
AllAnusMorisette · 08/07/2023 11:42

Most likely deductions, they would get a letter stating the amount of the O/P and told to call debt management to come to an arrangement for repaying.

AllAnusMorisette · 08/07/2023 11:44

Sounds like they had a compliance interview, prosecution would be rare, chances are it would be an overpayment and possibly a civil penalty of up to £50

Original poster
Bemyclementine · 08/07/2023 11:44

Thanks all this is reassuring.

OP posts:
Original poster
Bemyclementine · 08/07/2023 11:44

@AllAnusMorisette up to £50??

OP posts:
Babyroobs · 08/07/2023 11:45

Bemyclementine · 08/07/2023 11:38

Regarding the repayment, could this be done as deductions from future UC claim? Or would it be stopped altogether? (No savings currently, paid off mortgage as originally intended)

I think they can only take something like 25% of the standard allowance back in repayments. I'm not sure whether it makes a difference with intentional benefit fraud unlike most overpayments which are the result of being paid an overlapping benefit or a tax credit repayment where people have underestimated earning. Benefit fraud / deliberately not declaring capital may be treated differently, I'm not sure.

AllAnusMorisette · 08/07/2023 11:47

Bemyclementine · 08/07/2023 11:44

@AllAnusMorisette up to £50??

On top of the overpayment, it will be in the letter they got saying what the potential outcomes are.

So the Decision Maker will look at the statements and work out the OP, then decide whether to impose a civil penalty on top of up to £50. They will write to your friend with this info and they will be told to call debt management to organise repayment

BumbleBee2023 · 08/07/2023 11:51

How long was it sat over 16k for? A few months would be a overpayment and a slap on a wrist, longer than that overpayment, fine up to 3k and possibly not allowed to claim uc for a while.

Original poster
Bemyclementine · 08/07/2023 12:07

I'm not sure, I don't know the full details.

I think the real worry is court/prosecution. They're more than willing to repay what is owed.

OP posts:
AllAnusMorisette · 08/07/2023 12:20

Bemyclementine · 08/07/2023 12:07

I'm not sure, I don't know the full details.

I think the real worry is court/prosecution. They're more than willing to repay what is owed.

I would be amazed if it got that far, doesn't sound like they had an interview under caution if its been done by letter, from what you have said its a case of undeclared capital dealt with by a compliance officer, they get all the evidence like statements and send to a decision maker who determines the amount of overpayment.

Court and prosecution is a last resort really, and if they are providing what is asked for and complying with requests and is willing to repay, it shouldn't go as far as court.

Original poster
Bemyclementine · 08/07/2023 12:21

Oh yes, it was a meeting with the compliance officer. Thank you.

OP posts:
AllAnusMorisette · 08/07/2023 12:26

You're welcome, I used to he a compliance officer until I moved to a different department, feel free to ask anything else

12345r · 27/08/2024 12:33

Hi all

What come of this? I am currently in a similar situation and was told back in April that we owe 3.5k by a Decision maker over the phone. We had send bank statements all the way back from the start of the claim and answer questions regarding bank statements. The decision maker was really understanding about it all as it was us who notified them of our savings as soon as we realised about the capital 6k-16k rule.

The decision maker told us that we would receive a letter off debt management in regards to paying it back. However we have not heard anything, so I rang UC and Debt management and they can't see any overpayment on their systems!!!

They told us not to worry. Madness because we have the money ready to pay back, but it's as if it's disappeared. Could've it been passed onto fraud? (I know it's unlikely as we informed them and we have been completely honest and supplied everything they've asked for. Any ideas why no one knows about this debt??

ceecee32 · 27/08/2024 12:41

Ex fraud officer here.
If they have been seen by compliance it will not go to court, however the decision maker may look at deprivation of capital if they have paid the mortgage off before the payments were due. If they do that they could be treated as still having the money

12345r · 18/10/2024 10:44

Any update on this from OP?

UC and Debt Management are still saying that they don't have any info on my debt as if it doesn't exist. However they will have a paper trail of bank statement uploads etc on journal.

I have just made an official complaint to UC as I have a lot going on in regards to my son and being in and out of A and E and hospital appointments and this phantom debt is really making me anxious.

I am now thinking they are investigating for fraud as I don't understand why the debt figure told to us by the decision maker hasn't been passed onto debt management

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