Can we rely on the nhs anymore?

[Nc4post99]

I was reading a thread about a poor lady who’s been diagnosed with pancreatic and liver cancer, she’d been fobbed off with something for a long time before her diagnosis, got diagnosed in May and still nothing has been done.

there was another thread about a woman’s sister a while ago who was deathly ill losing weight and not taken seriously, i think in the end it was late stage cancer.

I was reading that our healthcare system is one of the worst now in developed nations. It’s such a sorry state of affairs. And 40k excess deaths last year. The GPs at my surgery have all lost their licences to ‘gross malpractice’ for sitting on referrals, refusing appointments. I know they are probably an outlier but all in all it’s just a really concerning picture

Then there is social care, with an older mother and a parent myself I find these things on my mind. I’m quite worried about what the future brings, things being missed, misdiagnosed, waiting lists. I’m genuinely worried one of us gets ill, needs the health service and it’s just not there the way it needs to be.

Tbh the co pay option is that not what happens in Australia and France? Seems to work well there

I'm still waiting for a call/email from a top rheumatologist who has a private consultancy. Been waiting 2 months + so presume the log jam shifted over from huge NHS waiting list.

@TheSnootiestFox
how exactly are we defining “not so decent”? I’m a MH nurse and, I like to think, a very good one, or, hopefully, at least “decent”. I work with a patient group (people with personality disorders, some of which also have trauma or substance abuse issues) who are very discriminated against, both in society and in healthcare. By and large, my patients like me and, more importantly, they improve in their functioning over time, with the usual caveats. On paper, however, my “metrics” aren’t amazing due to the nature of the patient group-would this lead me to being let go? I guess you could ask my patients. I suspect that most of the time they would want to keep me around. However sometimes they hate my guts. THIS IS BECAUSE THEY ARE SICK! I have friends who work on wards, in prisons, etc who give everything they have to service users who are paranoid, aggressive and potentially violent-and probably won’t get better no matter how hard everyone tries. Again, are they not “decent”? Should they be sacked? I humbly submit that you have no idea what some parts of the nhs accomplish with very little resources, funding and thanks.

While it's fair to blame the Tories for allowing the NHS to crumble I think it's time we all accepted that the free to all NHS can't carry on in the same way, it's just not a model that works anymore.

Absolutely. It certainly wasn't great under Labour either. I'd give up most things before my private healthcare.

Posters seem to say the part-pay system in France and Germany works well. Even if you charge a token amount for appointments, you'd cut no shows immediately.

We need to stop accepting crap care and being grateful because it's 'free'. I'm not bashing the staff, several of my friends are consultants and work bloody hard. But the model doesn't work and needs fundamental change.

Don't get me started on some of the nursing and admin staff I've encountered who'd be sacked on the spot for speaking to clients like that in the private sector. (I know some are very hard working and polite but others are shockingly rude and unhelpful).

Literally no-one is suggesting that.

I've lived in a country with a compulsory insurance scheme (payed by your employer, or by the government if you don't work). It's lightyears ahead of the NHS.

And I humbly submit that you have no clue how many people's lives are completely ruined by our lack of care by our so called NHS. If you're doing your job to a satisfactory standard, ie no official complaints from patients and I assume in the NHS you have performance management still (Ironically that was my mother's career!) then obviously you are exactly what the NHS needs. But let's not pretend that everyone working for the organisation is like you.

Oh that poor woman with liver cancer her update is heartbreaking- I do no understand the rationale for letting a person suffer like this. Where is the humanity in the nhs at times like this ?

Because the palliative care system is too over stretched.

I had to literally shout, scream, stamp and harrass people daily to get my Dad help and he had liver cancer. GP was useless, surgery nurses wouldn't even do his insulin and I had to learn how to. District nurses would turn up 8 hours later than needed with morphine. I literally cannot describe how horrific it was. Hospital stays were even worse... no Doctor around, pain relief not written up. Even the care levels in the hospice left gaps between meds and it took 4 days... 4.. to get a syringe driver in. And then it took another 36 hours to level the dosage.

I wouldn't wish the death that my Dad had on anyone. I'm still traumatised by his shouting/agitation as his body shut down. It was inhuman.

I’m so sorry that you and your dear Dad had to go through that.

i know there is over stretched systems but it does result in systemic failure of the people providing care, and for those people there has to be some sense of responsibility for their actions.

we’re truly in a sorry state of a country

@Nc4post99 seeing all the praise for the NHS leading up to its birthday is in stark contrast to the liver/bile duct cancer thread.

Ask for a referral to the special clinic at the Whittington Hospital

My heart breaks for that poor woman, it’s been nearly 2 months and she’s not seen an oncologist. No pain management, nothing.

i welled up when she wrote then she feels that she’s just been sent home to die.

Oh I totally agree, too many people seem to imagine they can have first class public services but low taxes! The Government try to con the ordinary working person that they can make that happen 🤦‍♀️

If we want first class, first world healthcare, then we have to accept it’s not going to be cheap!

No.
30 yrs ago, big city Hospital discharged my friend who'd had a MH issue wearing her only undies & a small hospital waffle blanket as 'they needed the bed'. It was snowing too.
Rural, small local Hospital. 8 Years ago
ExH had classic signs of a heart attack . Paramedics assessed fully & blue lighted him & his readings in. He was put on a trolly, ignored & 2 hrs later told to call himself a taxi home at 3am. No tests, no examination.
I broke my foot & it wasn't treated. I fell out of bed in Hospital after surgery & was told off. I've been on a waiting list for Apnea assess since Nov 2021.
My Mother died last spring after her cancer was missed & missed again.
GP went on hols for 3 wks & forgot to forward my '2ww suspected cancer' referral. Afterwards laughed & commented 'well you were OK, so it's all OK now'. No accountability at ALL.

Found this old thread today when using the search function and searching liver cancer

Waiting to hear the outcome re my liver

Ct scan picked up abnormalities on my liver etc etc ...

You do realise that is what the government wants people to do. It's not the NHS fault It's the underfunding from the government who would love to see us forced into a private system like the US. Which is fine for those who can afford private care, but for many it would be a total disaster. The reason most people go bankrupt in the US is medical bills. Many die as they just don't seek help in the first place as they know they wouldn't be able to afford it. They have the worst maternal death rate of any developed country.

We really don't want to go down this road we need to fund our NHS properly or follow another model where there a limited fees to help fund it like in other countries.

Def not. I waited over 12 hours in a&e last week. Paramedics who triaged on phone w dh suspected a stroke (it wasn’t), but he was told it’d be quicker to take me in himself than wait for an ambulance.
The symptoms were v specific (but odd) and as I felt the doctor in a&e (who was pleasant but young) hadn’t really grasped what the main issue was, I googled when I got home, and have made a GP appt so I can get a neurology referral - probably privately (and one ‘easy’ investigation the hospital did refer for is not until Feb!).

However, prob wasn’t fit 25+ years ago when my dm died of lung cancer…

I think just because the NHS has been a “free” resource doesn’t mean it should continue. It’s in its knees. We need to invest more. How, I am not sure but other countries manage well with paying for certain appointments. Perhaps we need to do the same.

Ive paid for private cfs diagnosis, private 1 organ mri , private eye stuff

Cuz ive had to

Even now i find out this coming week or not if i have cancer or not

Yes ive had some good / helpful procedures and treatment on nhs
But yeah

I am a bit exasperated

2 of my hospital trips this upcoming week are NHS procedures - both ive already had once each this yr already

People are living longer but not healthier. A large portion of society are old at 60 and will use resources for the rest of their life. I think we, as individuals, outsource our health. I'm not talking about cancer etc but the strain on the NHS is largely preventable with weight management, dietary responsibilities, healthy choices and fitness. Basic stuff.

If an elderly person presents at the GP with beginnings of frailty then support to reverse that could work (it IS reversible). Food vouchers for weekly free veg for all those in receipt of any support. Subsidised movement classes.

But this government, potentially any government doesn't care for long term prevention as successive governments take credit, weaponise, or can't milk profit from results. Long term policies are dull to the public too.

I’ve worked in private healthcare and it’s okay for elective surgery’s but for anything else I would pass on it. When things go wrong they are quick to turf you out for the NHS to put things right, believe me calling an ambulance at 2 am to get a patient picked up to be taken to A&E because there were no ITU bed in the hospital, the consultant lives miles away and the patient is really poorly and you haven’t got the resources you need to care for an acutely unwell patient is frightening. Yep will pass on the private hospital if you are seriously ill!

So basically we’re f’d either way?

I would agree. I work in healthcare too and the people locally to me who are doing it privately are shockingly out of date and often downright dangerous** (in my field). Those patients are regularly passed back to the NHS to mop up all the issues and sort them out properly.

The current patchwork model of private healthcare is no substitute for the NHS. We aren't designed for that as a country yet. It's good for a quick GP appointment or private physio or dentistry. Not really the big stuff.

Also - please don't think 'the entire NHS is shit' - it's not. There are many many areas of service that are working quietly in the background providing really good services. The bits you hear are about A&E, GP practices etc. that's such a small part of the whole NHS. It's NOT all broken.

I was going to post but what @grass321 said is 100% spot on.

We don't have enough trained staff, in most places if a staff member is rubbish they're disciplined and eventually sacked, not so in nursing.

The last two jobs I have taken I was the only person who applied and interviewed, if I'm a rubbish member of staff I'll keep my job because a questionable nurse is better than no nurse at all.

I'm the only nurse on the district for an entire town tonight, my manager has been advertising for out of hours nurses for nearly a year. The last team I was in couldn't even spend the staffing budget as they couldn't employ nurses to spend it on.

If you privatise the system it doesn't solve the above. I've worked in private and the cost cutting to increase profit is atrocious. Ramsey Healthcare is 9th in the country for 'never events', despite not undertaking anywhere near as many procedures as NHS trusts.

Would you have everyone pay?
Children, those on benefits, the elderly? (by far the biggest users of the NHS and often with the most disposable income), or would they all be exempt and charges be aimed at all the poor sods again in the middle?