If a grandparent gifted £20k to the gcs

[BlastedPimples]

but the parent spent it on art and bitcoin instead, would this be classed as theft?

There is email evidence the gp was giving the money specifically for the children. They never saw it.

Now, I know this is between the gp and his son but is it legally theft by the son, the grandchildren's father?

[Whataretheodds]

Is the art and bitcoin held in the child's name?

[BlastedPimples]

God no. In our divorce he says it's all his. Bought with inheritance. Which is a lie too.

[Mumdiva99]

I doubt it. The money was probably given to the son to manage.

I guess this is your ex and the father of your dc. Just keep remembering there's a reason he's an ex.

[Ohdearwhatnow4]

What did the will say, you can get a copy of the will.

[BlastedPimples]

There was nothing in the will. It was a gift from the grandfather to his grandchildren. Grandfather is still alive.

[MagicBullet]

Two issues

• he might have invested that money in art and bitcoin and genuinely thought it was the best way for his dc. That’s ok
• if he says that money is HIS and not his dc, then that’s theft but is a separate issue to the divorce

[00100001]

Well, presumably this is between the GP, dad and the kids?

[MagicBullet]

@BlastedPimples

God no. In our divorce he says it's all his. Bought with inheritance. Which is a lie too.

In that case, shouldn’t all that money be counted and go 50/50 in the divorce??

If there is no paper trail such as a will, you are going to struggle to ‘prove’ anything. Thats something your ex and his dad will have to sort out between them.

[00100001]

And in any divorce, if it's in his name, you'd be entitled to half, so you can give that share to the kids at least.

[Mariposista]

Ughhhhhh the money should be put in a place where nobody except the beneficiary can touch it, in ALL cases.

[Tinkerbyebye]

If he is saying it’s his then it’s a marital asset and needs counting within the financial situation

then I would let the grandfather know

[BlastedPimples]

Yes. The email specifically says it should be distributed equally between the gcs.

Stbxh has spent it. And is in debt.

[BlastedPimples]

I want the dcs to have that money.

[Oblomov23]

Has grandfather been told? He'd be furious surely.

[ChazsBrilliantAttitude]

It’s complicated and you need proper legal advice. There may (and I emphasise may) be an argument that he was holding the money as trustee for the children if the money was given to him with a clear and specific purpose. You would need to speak to a lawyer and given them all the evidence. Would the Grandparent also confirm the situation?

[OrderOfTheKookaburra]

If he's spent it and is in debt, exactly what money do you think your DC can get? Sadly you would spend more money chasing it then you would likely receive.

[Chatillon]

GF gifted it to GKs on a constructive trust.

Three certainties:
Subject matter - £20k.
Objects - GKs.
Intention - expressed in email and/or verbally.

Constructive trust established. Get GF now to execute a Deed confirming that was his original intention.

STBXH is trustee. There has been a breach of trust. He has to account for the assets and any losses personally to the GKs. Losses will be deductible in the divorce, but he owes 100% back to kids which is what you want to achieve.

Negotiate a return of the funds so it can be put into junior ISAs or blue chip funds and negotiate him stepping down as trustee and you take over, jointly if need be.

[pizzaHeart]

I wonder if it can come from his share of family assets.
I would definitely raise it at the divorce proceedings. I’m not sure about raising it with GP, I would get legal advice first. The GP probably wouldn’t want to deal with it officially, who wants to bring a claim of theft against their own child ?

[Chatillon]

You won’t establish theft. He can point to the Bitcoin and artwork and say here it is. You can only establish breach of trust.

Negotiate him out as part of the divorce settlement, it’s the only way practically.

[Tiddlypomtiddlypom]

Another day, another shit man. 😞