Boozing and longevity, myth or fact?

[MintyAraminta]

I've been reading about some related ideas and came across some google results that claimed there were studies that proved moderate drinking was healthier than abstinence.
Other studies claimed no such thing.

I did notice that the studies which stated drinkers lived longer were coming from the rags (Mail/Mirror/Sun, etc).
Which made me think mmmm,,,,,research possibly funded by drinks companies, lol.

However, when my dad was diagnosed with angina many years ago his cardiologist, upon hearing he didn't drink, advised him to try one small whiskey in the evenings. He never did, but lived to a good old age.

I myself am a rare drinker, the last time i indulged was on a city trip a month ago with a single pint and chips. I have very little experience with drink problems, although someone I knew slightly died in her 40's from alcoholism.

What do you think? Is there any real value in the idea that moderate drinking would make one live longer? There is the stuff about it reducing stress, but surely that could be alleviated by lifestyle/social changes, not just booze. Maybe booze is a red herring here..
And if you were quite stressed, you might have to drink really regularly to even cancel it out.

I do notice that drink can actually increase stress and anxiety, so don't know what to think.

I do think that despite all the potential dangers of alcohol, there are some benefits to be gained from moderate, occasional drinking because it is a social lubricant, relaxes you, is good for socialising, can be enjoyable to drink (feels like a treat) and makes you feel happy. These benefits sometimes outweigh the negatives. Note that I say "moderate, occasional" though!!

I remember a vet telling me that chocolate isn't poisonous to all dogs, but it is to some and there's no way to know which ones. Therefore the advice is to never give dogs chocolate.

I tend to think a similar thing is true in terms of things that are bad for us. Some people can get away with it, others can't. But we don't know that in advance so it's always a risk.

My mum smoked like a chimney (40+ per day) until her late 60's and lives in a polluted city. in her 70's now, fit as a fiddle. Her brother lives in a rural area in mainland Europe, lots of hiking, outdoor pursuits, never smoked, barely drinks, got lung cancer at 60! So you just don't know. Excessive drinking is never going to be good for anyone, but if you enjoy the odd glass of wine then carry on I say!

I'm a health scientist and my assumption, though I don't follow this area of research, is that very moderate (a glass to 3 of wine per week) drinking correlates with other things that haven't been adequately controlled for in the analyses that actually are causative of longevity. Not that alcohol consumption itself is what causes longevity. Particularly as we know that alcohol consumption, even in moderate amounts, is strongly linked to some of the leading causes of death.

My guess is it's something about the broader lifestyle of people who are able to drink very moderately that causes longer life - more social, stronger personal network, happy relationship, no chronic health conditions or disabilities, etc. Keep in mind that most people who drink though, do not drink moderately. I don't drink myself, but I don't know anyone in my social circle (amongst drinkers) who drink less than 14 units a week, for example, or who only have a glass of prosecco 3 times a year at a wedding toast. Most people who drink are regular drinkers who drink several days a week and more than recommended amounts.

my gran drank homemade strong wine every day and died at 100

*I should add there is no judgement there - I used to be a heavy drinker myself and all my close friends and family are still relatively heavy drinkers. But I do think that nearly all of them would consider themselves 'moderate' drinkers and would say they drank within recommended and healthy limits. But that's only because they perceive their drinking to be 'normal' and not a 'problem' and therefore must be healthy and fine, even if it's quite a lot. I think we tend to have a perception that there is 'alcoholic level' of drinking and there is 'normal, social drinking.'

But actually there is wide variation in there and lots of people drinking quite a lot more than they should, having a serious impact on their lives, but who aren't physically dependent. I'm an alcoholic, but within my sober communities and support groups, I would say I'm actually a bit of an outlier. I'd say 80% of people I know who are accessing support to stop drinking are weekend drinkers, mostly women, in their 40s and 50s, who don't drink Mon-Thurs and never have a drink before say 3pm. I think most people would class that as 'normal and moderate' but there are quite a lot of people like that out there, who are struggling, accessing both private/NHS support and having health issues that they attribute to alcohol (and probably other things too).

My grandad lived until 92 largely in good health until the last month and he drank like a fish. I sadly inherited his love of alcohol 😵‍💫 but fortunately I am now 2 years sober. I don’t think that means that drinking like a fish was good for him but rather he was lucky!

I notice how many people talk about specifically wine. Studies show that wine drinkers are healthier than non drinkers, spirits or beer drinkers.

They are also wealthier. Wonder which makes the biggest difference?

Good sense and moderation and not taking the NHS mantras too seriously. There was:

Butter (was deadly, now better than the recommended alternative)

BMI/diet guidance - now known to tube woefully inadequate.

Breast is best - in pure terms possibly but only when it supports mother and baby to thrive. According to some midwives when mine were small - FF was akin to abuse.

I shall be sensible and moderate until I am 80. At that point I shall be hitting the sherry, chocolate and fags and having a whale of a twilight.

My Italian grandfather did this every morning, raw eggs in a shot of brandy, made me feel sick watching him, he just knocked it back. He swore by it and lived to late nineties

https://www.indiatoday.in/fyi/story/sweet-116-raw-eggs-brandy-and-singlehood-made-this-woman-live-through-3-centuries-323638-2016-05-15

I think it is Catherine Gray who says that many of the studies are actually funded by the alcohol industry, and drinkaware.co.Uk is also run by alcohol companies. 🤔

If you keep your body in peak health you increase the chances that your brain goes nuts but you don't die just live out more years than you would choose not remembering who or what you are.

With most things in life there is a difference sharing wine and food with loved ones, conversation, laughter etc and sinking can after can at home alone

Do the things you enjoy.

Look at Iggy Pop.......there is hope for all!

Everything in moderation including moderation.

This article pushes back agains the 'myth' (not my words) that moderate drinking prevents heart disease. Interesting stuff.

https://slate.com/technology/2023/04/alcohol-wine-drinking-healthy-dangerous-study.html

In life, i do tend to think we search for evidence which confirms our own bias (or hopes/beliefs), in almost every aspect of living. From anxiety to health to the economy to politics.

It's great to become aware when we are doing that.

An excellent doc about alcohol culture in the uk

Not only do moderate drinkers live longer, but so do overweight people on average. (Not to be confused with obese or morbidity obese).
I'll cheers to that!

I'm a health scientist and my assumption, though I don't follow this area of research, is that very moderate (a glass to 3 of wine per week) drinking correlates with other things that haven't been adequately controlled for in the analyses that actually are causative of longevity. Not that alcohol consumption itself is what causes longevity. Particularly as we know that alcohol consumption, even in moderate amounts, is strongly linked to some of the leading causes of death

It's this. The kind of person who drinks one glass of red wine every other is likely to have other things that allow them to be healthy. Once you allow for those other factors, there are no health benefits to drinking even a small amount of alcohol - although I believe if you are a passenger in, for e.g., a car accident, being drunk makes you more likely to survive it as it keeps your muscles relaxed on impact. But that's obviously quite a niche scenario!

I make lots of jokes, but I think if genuinely believe this then you are trying to justify to yourself, I do drink wine and sometimes other alcohol but I don't pretend it is healthy and like many illnesses and diseases there is no blanket answer to why one person can be safe and another harmed, type thing

Weren't those studies funded by alcohol companies?

Life would certainly seem a lot longer without alcohol.

I think it was more that tee totallers don’t live as long as light drinkers/

but there are so so many confounders. Why is someone teetotal? Are they perhaps more highly strung (for example). (I don’t drink myself- I’m not trying to offend here).

light drinking appears to mean very light and red wine. I would imagine it’s better with a meal

it’s the sugar - or more specifically - the blood sugar spikes - that buggers the arteries

my own DM is nearly 80 and on no medication for blood pressure despite a cardiac family history. She has enjoyed a large glass of red wine, daily, for 50 years/

Richard Burton talking about booze.

From what I have read, the wine thing is a myth, and to get the benefits of the ingredient that supposedly aids heart health wold take buckets of the stuff to have any effect.

Wine has become the 'classy' choice, people feel less like they have an issue with alcohol if their chosen tipple is wine. It's all in the marketing and lifestyle aura.
Certain drinks become associated with social class or profession - flavoured gins are still trending, a bottle of Prosecco at your holiday let, etc.

Carling, Stella et al very much plastered all over football pitches and on players clothing, unlike in France, where sport and booze ads are a no go. This type usually associated with working class or lower prof/education.

it's all bollocks of course, it's all alcohol.

To the person who asked if i had a problem (the obligatory question in any booze thread) - I average around 4 units a month.

@mindutopia surely if these are proper studies then other variables have been adequately controlled for though? Otherwise it’s a nonsense

I think it is Catherine Gray who says that many of the studies are actually funded by the alcohol industry, and drinkaware.co.Uk is also run by alcohol companies

drinkaware was set up by the government and devolved administrations. It is FUNDED by alcohol companies but not run by them. Do you think it should be funded by tax payer’s money?

There is a very strong link between red wine drinking and longevity in Sardinia, the average amount drunk being two glasses a day, one with lunch, one with dinner. So, consistent, but not binge drinking, and always with food. Along with all their other fab ways of life, good fresh food, strong family, fresh air, the local wine is full of anti-oxidents and incredibly strong!