Question for Teachers re PGCE

[RunRaggedRan]

DC is considering a PGCE with QTS following completion of their degree. There seems to be choice between Uni based/led with school placements or school based with the PGCE part being done over the year with training and development days back in the Uni who will award the PGCE (apols if this is described clumsily but I hope you know what I mean!). Does one have an advantage over the other or are they all equal and viewed equally by perspective employers? Trying to decide which route is best.

Thanks.

I did the traditional PGCE with school placements, but this was back in 2001.
At the time the advantage was that you could have a job offer around Easter, finish in the summer, and start teaching in September.
It is a VERY tough year.

Hi

I've done a school-led and I may be biased, but you do get a good experience as you're treated as staff from day one. You're also more in school compared to the uni led, which is the whole point of the PGCE really. The more in classroom, the better.

Its also good for links with schools in case they're an academy and can be helpful when it comes to applying for jobs.

Obviously we're passed covid (thank goodness!!) But alot of my peers just got a pgce while not been in classrooms during covid while we were with a SCITT and were in full length. It was great and just showed the links between the SCITT.

Hth. I wish your son all the best x

I lead a PGCE course - both are of the same value, employers won't care or even know which route someone takes.

Both do placements, who organises the placements varies - the lead school for school direct (the school based one), the university for "core", the university based one.

DD has recently had to make this decision and she opted for PGCE route. From what I/we could gather the school based is as it says on the tin, you seem to hit the ground running and are treated as a member of staff straight away. There seemed to be the prospect of less support perhaps but this is only from the bits I read not word of mouth.

I did school based and it was definitely the better option for me. More time in actual school, more learning from doing the job rather than being told how to do it/about it.

School based SCITT is best, provided it's in a good school with good support. You start off observing but then teaching hours get steadily ramped up. Honestly the best as once you complete the year you are more than ready to go!

Thank you, these replies are really helping. DC has been leaning towards school based for many of the reasons mentioned above so it’s actually really good to read positive reviews. Am hoping that primary versus secondary doesn’t change your views but assume not!

To the pp who mentioned what a tough year it is, thank you! I’ve heard this, read this and been told too .. I just hope my offspring is taking it onboard!

I would go for the uni based one - the reason another poster gave for liking school based (you're treated as staff from day one) is exactly the reason I don't like that system as much - you aren't ready to be a member of staff on day 1! With the PGCE with school placements you also get chance to go to more than one school which is an important experience I think.

I would look for one where you get experience in different schools.
Schools can be very different from one another, and a greater experience can only be for the good IMO.

I did the PGCE route. It was best for me as I was straight out of uni so young age preferred the guidance before hand. I had no teaching experience prior to the pgce so found it better to be eased in more gently with a few weeks of observations before actually teaching a class. 13 years later I’m still loving teaching! That being said, I’ve had a few colleagues who were LSAs / TAs / cover supervisors who went on to do school based teacher training as they had already lots of classroom experience so were ready to hit the ground running.

It honestly depends on the ‘school based scheme’ - I had ‘school based’ and ‘SCITT’ trainees in my PGCE lectures, and we were all in uni the same amount of time and there was zero difference in it. it just seemed that their placements were pre-coordinated by their provider.

one thing I will say is- I would definitely not choose a program where there is single placement for the entire year.

hopefully not- but there is too much potential for things to do wrong if your DC’s ‘face doesn’t fit’ or there are other issues. Schools can be absolutely insane, political places- and places approved for teacher training are not immune to this!!!

My daughter did a school-based one last year and would definitely recommend that.

It was run by a consortium of local schools. All trainees had a "home school" where they spent their first and third term, and an "away school" where they spent the second term. They also spent some time every week in off-the-job training and completed a dissertation that was marked by the university that awarded the PGCE.

All trainees had to gain experience of teaching children in at least two key stages, three where appropriate. In addition, they had some short visits to other settings: she spent a day in a primary school and two days in different special schools.

The "home school" made her very welcome and she quickly felt part of the team. The SLT and her departmental colleagues were very supportive. The head took a real interest in the trainees and undertook to let them know by Christmas if he could offer them a job for the following year.

He wasn't able to offer my daughter a job, for which he apologised, but said he had heard good things about her and would ask around. She didn't expect anything to come of it but he contacted her early in the new year to say he had recommended her to one of his colleagues in a neighbouring school. That head invited her in for an informal chat and offered her a job.
She's just coming to the end of her first year there and is extremely happy.

Good luck to your DC!

It does depend on how well the school-based scheme is run (and I suppose how well the uni one is run too). I prefer the university based PGCE - I feel there is a better support network, you are well looked after, and there is more emphasis on theory. For many students straight out of uni, I feel this provides a good transition to the working world. For people already in careers who are doing a career change, they often prefer to go into a school-based one.
I don't think there is a 'right' answer, and different routes will suit different individuals better.

Thank you for so many helpful responses - it’s been really interesting to read differing experiences. @Fifthtimelucky, what you have described is very much the type of course we have read about with multiple schools one of which is the base with placements in other schools.

I’m going to get DC to read your responses later. Thanks again!

Lots of useful comments here.. From an employment point of view we rarely look at which style of PGCE has been completed.

I'd say a lot depends on your daughter as an individual too. How much experience does she have? How confident will she be? A uni based approach, while still intense and busy is perhaps a little better supported and gradual. A school based approach, as others have said often treats the individual as a member of staff from the beginning with high expectations of them. It can be overwhelming for someone less confident to be expected to teach fairly on and receive constructive feedback which they act upon. Saying that, if she is confident and has classroom experience already the more time in school the better!

Either way, it's an exhausting course, an exhausting job but worth every second!

I did the school direct programme last year and would absolutely recommend if he already has a degree. I was offered a job in the trust that I trained in which was great as I already was familiar with their schemes and ways of working

Sorry, she

I'd say it depends on the subject - if there's a good bursary attached, go with the PGCE. The PGCE can be very research and theory based, which some people thrive within. It also provides a lot of support as your teaching hours ramp up. If it's a subject with no or limited bursary, salaried routes are probably much more attractive. Potentially keep away from Teach First though, as this will very much throw you on at the deep end (that said, I have heard it said that if you can survive Teach First, you can survive anything, so you are eminently employable).

I completed the SCITT route 15 years ago and would 100% recommend that route.

I've mentored students on both style of courses and the SCITT trainees seem much more classroom focused during their training where as our uni based pgce students are much more assignment focused, for some getting them teaching is a challenge.

PGCE students in my experience struggle much more in their first year as the workload increases. I went from teaching 16 hours over 4 days to 20 over 5, pace are on about 10-12 at the end.

Can I suggest whichever she chooses, she gets some experience in a school for the age group she wants to work with first?
Regardless of the route she chooses they will be looking for that and she might hate being in a school.
I start my PGCE in September, having applied for both uni-led PGCE and Schools Direct. It has ended up that I am going through the uni route, but I have worked in secondary schools for a few years and it has changed a great deal since I started.

It is very tough. I know a few people who said it was the toughest year they ever did. Harder than their degree at Cambridge etc. I see very unimpressive teachers sometimes who frankly seem a bit thick and clueless and wonder how they coped.

Dd did secondary school based. Four years later she's department head.